Oranges and beef has the same insulin respons

carbs
insulinrespons
chart
fruit
#1

according to the chart I found, but are not able to give a link to,unfortunately
Oranges 60
Beef 58
fish 59
potatoes 121 !!!
white bread 100
eggs 31
cheece 45
grapes and bananas 82/81

(Stacy Blanchard) #2

I don’t buy it.

#3

According to Jason Fung it is not glucose (glycemic respons), but insulin that makes us gain weight. That is why I found this interesting. Of course I understand one is hardly in ketoses eating a bunch of oranges like I have began doing, but I started doing it when I understood that as long as the respons is low I will not gain the water weight back. That was also my experience. I have more energy wiith the added fruit and being out of ketoses, so I am happy.

#4

google: "insulin response food chart " The first result I got was from : academic.oup.com. There you will see it. Don’t just click on the link in my comment here.It will not bring you to the charts.

(Stacy Blanchard) #5

your link says NOT FOUND

(Patrick Belair) #6
(Stacy Blanchard) #7

There looks like there is some good info. I’m still not sure that an orange and a steak are very comparable and just looking at this on graph is over simplifying the issue. That being said if you want an orange, have one. You don’t need to justify your choice. It’s a whole food and does have some nutritional benefits although a steak will over all win in every other area. When I really want something I just have it.

(Doug) #8

True, Davida, but he’s talking about persistently high insulin levels, as with insulin resistance, rather than the body’s insulin response to given foods (which hopefully are not being eaten around the clock).

Oranges -> blood sugar -> insulin, which is not the same as beef (protein) directly stimulating insulin. Protein also stimulates glucagon, as @akirby83 noted in the ‘Is the “too much protein turns to sugar” a myth’ thread. The insulin/glucagon ratio - which is important since glucagon has the opposite effect of insulin - is highly dependent on one’s individual context, i.e. is one eating ketogenically, or is one eating substantial carbohydrates.

I think it all boils down to meat not being “as bad as oranges” for blood sugar and hormonal issues.

#9

Thank you, OldDough, you gave me the missing piece I knew I was missing, but didn’t find.

#10

Trying to find information about " Protein also stimulates glucagon". To my disappointment Fung writes nothing about it in the “Obesity code” so I will search the internet. Instead he says high protein diets like Atkins and Stillman, doesn’t work well for weight loss (because protein raises insulin). You write that Fung means persistantly high insulin levels. My thought: Since protein takes longer to digest the insulin levels will stay elevated for longer. Hm, I want to find out why protein stimulates glucagon. Edit: Found an answer to be: The glucagon is secreted to stimulate the uptake of amino acids into the cells of the liver for gluconeogenesis. Source: http://www.insulin-pumpers.org/howto/pfandbs-3.html.

#11

Also that one professor with the shaved head, (Blickman?) Has studies that show the insulin response from protein is blunted in ketosis.

(Todd Allen) #12

And how satiating is 100 g of oranges vs 100 g of steak?

Also, the insulin response of steak is driving amino acids into muscle for growth and repair while with oranges it is driving sugar into muscles (ok if you are burning it) and fat (not so good if you have more of it than you want).

(Kerin ) #13

I mean, prior keto I probably would have 2 toast, fruit, yogurt, cereal, milk, pasta, crackers, candy and stuff, all week long.
So one orange or beef? Well now that I have eliminated those prior foods, it’s nice to know that an orange seems keto friendly.

(Todd Allen) #14

An orange isn’t keto friendly. But it can be keto compatible for those with minimal metabolic derangement and normal carb tolerance so long as they are doing enough other things right. It’s also probably a better choice for a cheat than cookies, cake and other processed food indulgences.

(Kerin ) #15

Yes, it is a better choice.
Compatible sounds friendly to me.
:blush:
Definitely not a protein source. Not a fat source.
A friendly time out from fat, protein, etc.

(Bob M) #16

Better choices would be berries, fewer carbs, higher in nutrition.

And an orange is definitely not keto friendly, at least for me. They have 11-20+ grams of carbs, which means I could eat that but nothing else that has carbs.

(KCKO, KCFO đŸ„„) #17

He does address it on his blog:

https://idmprogram.com/protein-fattening-hormonal-obesity-xxv/

I do eat some fruit from time to time now that I am in maintenance, but they were not my friends when trying to loss weight. Once we are more flexible in fat vs. sugar burning, some fruit is a nice treat. But if I could only eat one or the other, it would be the steak not the orange.

#18

Ok. So it’s Dr. Bickman (not whatever I said earlier), and here is the video where he discusses protein and keto.

The short version is that the textbook says that carbs raise only insulin. Protein raises insulin and glucagon equally, and fat raises only glucagon. Evidence suggests that this is dependent on glycemia, and if you’re in ketosis, the insulingenic effect of protein is greatly reduced.

#19

Thank you. That is interesting.

#20

You must eat more than 100 g of oranges to equal the calories in 100 g of steak. Itis filling once you have enough calories.