Nutritional calculation for active athletes

science
(Kian Zanno Ejlertsen) #1

Hey everybody,

I`m newbie here and to keto, and are looking for some help to solve some question to the nutritional micros, which in general is around 75% fat, 20% protein and 5% carbohydrates.

The conundrum for me is that these numbers, and nutritional calculations, are for people who are slightly active during the day and do a few hours of workout pr. week.

I`m very active athlete with 18 – 25 hours of training pr. week, 2 - 3 session pr. day. A morning could be 10x1.000m intervals (running) with a 3.38 pace (min.km) and in the afternoon 70min of HIIT training with body weight - or – HIIT training in the morning and 75 – 90min if bike intervals in the afternoon. Weekends, Saturday and Sunday, are mostly endurance or tempo biking (2 – 3 hours) with off-bike (short running) I also do IF 16/8, so no breakfest.

My current body composition is:
Height. 1.68
Weight. 59kg
Bodyfat. 5%
Base energy consumption.: 1.700 Kcal.

Any suggestions would be appreciated, and links to resource or studies that could give examples would be great.

All best, Kian

(Allie) #2

I recommend this book :slight_smile:

(Richard Hanson) #3

+1

I do not have this book as it is not germane to my situation, but Dr. Volek is awesome! Everything in the book will be heavily documented, it will have plenty of references to the science for further research.

SlowBurnMary may also be able to give some insight.

Keto for Life!

Best Regards,
Richard

(Erin Macfarland ) #4

@Kian I would highly recommend upping your overall caloric intake and even bumping up your carbohydrates. With that level of glycolitic exercise you can handle a higher amount of carbs and protein, especially at such a low level of body fat. I think a good strategy for someone as active as you and with low levels of body fat would be around 60 percent fat and the rest divided between carbs and protein. I have found that higher amounts of fat when being extremely active causes some stomach upset. I would also use caution with fasting, which you don’t mention but I would suggest not going for longer than 16 to 18 hours max. Ben Greenfield has a book written for low carb athletes, and also some good articles written about this subject. Maybe Google those and have a look at them. Also make sure you’re getting enough salt as you lose a lot on both low carb and during physical activity. I have been in almost your exact situation and these are the things I wish I’d done to prevent my body from tanking. You need to make sure you’re really getting in lots of calories, and don’t be too hung up on having a super low intake of carbs and protein.

(Erin Macfarland ) #5

https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/article/low-carb-ketogenic-diet-articles/ketogenic-diet-for-athletes/

(Erin Macfarland ) #6

https://greenfieldfitnesssystems.com/product/the-low-carb-athlete/

(Kian Zanno Ejlertsen) #7

Hi Allie,

Thanks for the link. It looks very promising in what I’m looking for, and a copy is on its way to DK. :slight_smile:

#8

I’m new to keto, so no advice or comment on that.

However, if your goal is to improve your running and biking at races of more than a few minutes of duration, you are probably doing way to much high intensity. Two intense workouts in a single day for fuck’s sake!! Aerobic capacity/threshold with intervals, mix of alactic/lactic anaerobic with HIIT…

80% of your exercise should be at an easy pace (less than 80% of maximum heart rate / 90% marathon pace / 5 hours race pace). You’d probably like to have a look at Daniels’ Running Formula by Jack Daniels for running (very detailed about how to train) and 80/20 Training by Matt Fitzgerald (more general). Phil Maffetone (who trained successful triathletes) has published a book about endurance training and low carb, he also emphasizes loads of easy training. (but I find his prose unbearable lol)

(Mike W.) #9

I would keep the ratios the same just eat more fat and more protein. Really, I would just eat more.

(Kian Zanno Ejlertsen) #10

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the reference, very appreciated. I have seen a couple of interviews on YouTube with Dr. Volek, and I agree, he is very thorough and insures that everything is well documented by numbers and studies. The problem, in my case, is still that most of the information and studies is based on people with a “normal” level of activity, or trying to lose weight as well as better their health because of sickness. I`m interested in keto (and LCHF) for performance, but sure, also for the health benefits.

All best, Kian

(Kian Zanno Ejlertsen) #11

Hi Erin,

Thanks for the great feedback, I really appreciate it. And thanks for the links the books. I will defiantly have a read on those.

In regards to my overall caloric intake, what would you suggest? At this point it is around 1.700 Kcal + 1.000/1.500 Kcal from training, 2.700/3.200 Kcal total pr. day. This is currently divided to 58% fat, 30% protein and 12 carbs.
I have defiantly felt the need for salt has gone up, very up, after going low carb… :slight_smile:

Also, I do fast for 16 hours a day, so no eating after 8pm, no breakfast, first meal aging around 1pm the next day. So my morning session is on empty stomach.

All best, Kian

(Kian Zanno Ejlertsen) #12

@astronomovolao
Appropriate your feedback. In regards to my workout regime, well… don’t think you can’t generalize training, as with nutrition I have done the 80/20 approach, didn’t work for me…. Anywho, I do run 3hrs on the marathon, on the full Ironman distance…1hr 18min on the half… :slight_smile:

@MiKetoAF
Hi Mike, thanks! You would keep the current ratio, but up the total amount of calories?

(ianrobo) #13

Hi Kian,

A lot of points I could make here (check out the exercise sub forum) and from your training regime are you a semi pro athlete because that is a lot of time spent training.

I guess the real question for anyone is a simple one.

What is your aim/target ?

Because that will determine exactly what you need, clearly an endurance athlete so is there an event you want to aim for ? On real long periods of exercise - say a century ride or a marathon do you eat ?

On your level of calories vs exercise and as you are quite light anyway are you stable at weight because if you are that blows the CICO theory totally out of the water ?

Have the mantra when eating that do not worry about calories but eat until you feel full, for example in normal day to day living are you hungry, if not then you are eating at the right levels.

Of course Phinney/Volek are a MUST read but Steve P has moved forward to the idea of carb cycling (so has Peter Defty) for specific events but again that depends on your target … for example I want to do a 24hour ride in Septemeber 2018 for that carb intake is kinda irrelevant because not aiming for bursts of power. However if you are a competitive cyclist on a one day event with climbs you may need this.

(Kian Zanno Ejlertsen) #14

@ianrobo

Hi Legacy,

I`m just a passionate age grouper :slight_smile: … striving to make a sub 9 on the long IM distance. Well my aim with this is both performance, half IM distance only in 2018, as well as health.

My weight is pretty solid, around 58kg > 59kg, but performance seems to take a punch if I lower my carb intake below the 10%… both in yellow and red bike-zones.

I have been doing some Googling, the last couple of days, on keto-carb-cycling, and thinking I would it a short, going “high-carb” Saturday with 30% carbs, 20% fat and 50% protein, and the shift back Sunday with 20% carbs, 30% fats and 50% protein, and by Monday be back to 58% fats, 30% protein and 12% carbs.

Had a look at Dr. Steve Phinney… there are defiantly some good reads there. Thanks!

(ianrobo) #15

Then I wonder if you are fully fat adapted and maybe need to try and increase that, in the red is all carb but lower down as the FASTER study showed (search for it) that fat is much higher if fully adapted ithan people thought

(Allie) #16

There will be a drop in performance as your body adapts to being a fat burner and you have to be gentle with yourself through the process, but once properly adapted, you’ll feel the benefit.

#17

It is difficult to give a time as a proof of effectiveness as talent is a large part of the equation. I’ve just run 2:54 on the marathon but some people do 2:40 with much less training than I do, others 3:10 with significantly more dedication…

All I know is that most coaches and authors go against large loads of high intensity (Jack Daniels, Hansons, Arthur Lydiard, Pete Pfitzinger, Brad Hudson) and schedules leaked from elite marathoners include most time at an easy to moderate pace (see Renato Canova’s ones for instance). You’re probably not normal lol.

In any case, your good time allows you to enjoy races competitively! :slight_smile: