Hi all! I am only on day 10 but I have learned a lot. Some research is tougher as there are so many companies wanting money for these memberships or their fancy products. I am on my 3rd fast, I am trying to do 48/12. So far things have gone pretty well considering my intense beginning to the program. I dont intend to keep this schedule forever just in the beginning. So seeing that I only eat a few times a week, I want to make sure I am putting the best food in my body as possible. I was raised in a home where food wasnt healthy, I am 41 yrs old and I have ALWAYS had a really destructive relationship with food. So I am brand new at this. Today I was researching grass fed meats and dairy. How important is this? Is there things to stay away from? Tips for someone on a bit of a budget? Organic produce and products…is this also recommended? I have been going back and forth about putting 2Tbs of coconut oil in my morning coffee, a caloric intake of 243. Some stuff says it breaks my fast, some say it doesnt. I just thought that since I am fasting so frequently that it would be good to have a few hundred calories from fat? Alcohol, seems like it is very bad and not recommended. Is doing it on occasion going to have negative consequences in the long run? Honestly all I can think about is sushi, it is crazy. Since October 10th, I have lost 18 pounds and an inch or more in my measurements. I feel great, with very few exceptions, I have really never felt better… physically, mentally, and emotionally. I learn more every day, thank you for your help.
Now on to the food
I think your fasting too quickly imo. I think you should do smaller IF fasts as 21-3 or 18-6 or something like that. I think you should let your body adapt some. But that’s just my opinion!
It sounds like you’re doing great Kimbrie. But what @monsterjuice Ashley said is definitely worth consideration. Early on too much fasting before becoming fat adapted can end up working against you. IF with TMAD is a better place to start IMHO.
On the food choices buy the best food you can afford, don’t let perfect get in the way of good. If you can’t afford grass fed beef and butter, pasture raised chicken and eggs, organic dairy and vegetables you buy what you can afford to feed your body what it needs. Some people live in places where this stuff isn’t even available. So do the best you can with what’s available, and what you can afford. What better investment is there than nutritional needs?
As for food, I don’t buy grass fed, I buy what I can afford which is just fatty cuts of beef. The one thing I do buy sometimes is grass fed butter, which is because I like the taste of Kerrygold.
Dr. Ken Berry is a great resource for Keto info, this video will help and he has several others that are great, all on youtube =).
I agree with all the above comments that @monsterjuice and @David_Stilley made above. We often suggest to new Keto people on the forum to start out with 3 meals a day and ease into it; but I have already mentioned this to you before. I wish you the best in your Keto journey.
Thank you, I really appreciate your input and you are on the side of right. I am not sure why but this is just how it has played out for me. My doctor also thinks I am fasting too much too soon but I have his blessing to try, the health benefits of extended fasting are really quite amazing. Mostly I feel like my body will tell me when something isnt ok. I test myself daily and am having more comprehensive labs drawn monthly. I must seem like a lunatic lol. Thanks again for your time, I do value your opinion.
Hi David, I am so glad you addressed this because despite hours of searching, I have seen more information on fat adapting first so it will be easier. I really feel this is the only way I was going to be successful. I did get the flu on the first fast, but I didnt hydrate or take any electrolytes until literally the 2nd day of my fast. I want to stay in fasted state for as long as possible for the long list of positive effects it has. I needed to make a break from my old lifestyle and diet like ripping off a bandaid I think. So here I am, do you think I should fast less time or be not fasting for longer stretches of time. I have to keep beating this horse, but I do really feel great. My main goal is to really do this well, it is definitely a science. I would love to work my way up to doing the 21 day fast someday. I think it would be very liberating. Thanks again friend, appreciate your feedback
I know, I must be frustrating to you all. I do take into account everything that you say. More than all the research, studies, how to guides for beginners, this forum is where I feel my questions get answered and being able to bounce my unconventional journey off of you guys is a huge relief. I greatly appreciate your time.
You are not frustrating to us at all, Kimbrie. We want to help and you are a very lovely lady, we want you to succeed =).
Fasts are a complex subject Kimbrie. I’m certainly no expert on the matter either. My fasting has been limited to IF. I’ve been eating this way for 14 months. I’ve gone from 205 to 144 and now bouncing between 147-149. I am relaxing a little and have stopped tracking food. I don’t even calculate carbs right now. It’s an experiment to seeif I have learned how to eat instinctually with my new food choices. So far I am doing well at maintaining that two pound range.
So fasting can have many goals and purposes. My understanding is IF is most effective for weight loss. It’s worked great for me eating everyday. Easy. I have done three Fat Fasts, 2,3 and 4 days. The last two were only BPC drinks. This is great for me to drop a few quick pounds without being hungry or busting a stall period. I only use butter and MCT oil in the coffee.
Fasting longer than three days starts to have diminishing weight loss benefits from many peoples experience. The metabolism seems to slow down after that temporarily. When you break the fast there’s more of an impulse to eat more and many gain back much lost on extended fasts. There are autophagy benefits to the longer fasting though. Great for loose skin and deflated fat cell recycling. After five days there seems to be autophagy happening in the brain. This is great for brain health as you age. It’s also good for eliminating pre cancerous growths and tumors.
I personally don’t understand why a 21 day Fast is desirable though unless it’s advised for a medical purpose and supervised by a doctor. It’s not a contest to prove your willpower. It’s emergency survival. And there’s only something near 30 kcals of energy per pound of body fat that you can access in a 24 hr period. If that doesn’t cover metabolic and activity needs your metabolism will slow down till it does. This sounds more like starvation than systematic intelligently planned fasting to me. If you want some tried and true fasting regimens for people with a lot to loose study up on the IDM website and watch some Jason Fung videos if you haven’t. Myself, I would definitely be careful doing a lot of fasting beyond IF to make sure I was doing it right.
I agree with David (all the above). The longest I have done is 75 hours, and for now I am just doing the 44 hour ones at the longest until November 30 then full 1800 or so calories a day for December =).
IDM (DR Fung’s organization) are experts on fasting. They say when you fast for multiple days (40+ hrs) you should refeed for 2 days.
Also I have found that my body got used to fasting and I had to pull back to loose weight. So I’ve gone through periods of of just IF 18/6 or so and feasting and then going back to fasting.
Being fully fat adapted can take months and did for me so I did not start multiple day fasts till about 6 or 7 months into this journey.
I mostly agree with the others.
Your fasting schedule seems strict but you should feel what is good for you. I can’t imagine very long fasts are good for the body (it’s not logical at all), shorter ones are fine for many of us, I wouldn’t have such a short time between fasts myself but maybe it works for some, I know some people do that. If you have too little body fat for your fasts, consuming some fat sounds a good idea. I don’t do that for my 47-48 hour fasts but I have many days in between. But it matters how much you eat in your eating window. It’s not impossible to eat enough in average.
I think alcohol is up to you. As I’ve read elsewhere, many ketoers drink frequently and it works for them. The body needs to focus on alcohol instead of making ketones for a while but it’s not necessarily a big problem. Alcohol is a toxin anyway (that’s why the body does its best to get rid of it quickly), I would worry about that more than about stopping keto production for a while. If you drink rarely and not a huge amount, it shouldn’t be a problem unless you are allergic to it but you would know that. Or maybe it interferes sometimes, not in my case but I always drank little and it’s way less since keto. I would be careful, alcohol shouldn’t be so important anyway but I probably can’t understand that with my super tiny alcohol consumption and zero need for it. If you “must”, drink occasionally, preferably the zero or very low-carb drinks, of course.
I am on a budget myself but choosy too (I accept only very good meat of home-raised or hunted animals. except salmon but that’s not cheap even if it’s not wild) so I simply can’t depend on meat or dairy much. Meat is very useful but one can have a nutritious keto diet without it IMO. I buy lots of eggs from good sources and I just can’t get bored of them. I buy normal vegetables, I couldn’t even find organic ones nearby except the very small amount from my own garden. It should be fine. My body heroically fought even on my bad diet, I improved it pretty much. Nothing is perfect, we just should do what we can. There are so many options on keto. Some of them requires more carbs than others if you want to get (almost) all nutrients from your food, I’m lucky my carb limit is higher.
But it seems way easier to eat meat and worry less about nutrients and somewhat complicated meals. Simpleness has charm.
Things to stay away from… It’s up to you to figure out what floats your boat. Some people need extremely strict rules because many food items interferes with their goals and state of body/mind, others prefer squeezing nearly anything into their macros. Both extremity might work and everything else in between, it depends on the person and it may change as time passes. Though I don’t consider quite healthy if someone really wants nearly everything and doesn’t try to do anything about it…
I work in the organic, health food industry. I know the importance of the health and wellbeing of the animal that is providing their meat, eggs, milk etc. What they eat and how they spend their days passes on nutrients to us. That being said, I understand that these can be costly…I guess each individual has to do the best they can.
I used to believe this, there’s some truth mixed with myth here. Alcohol is a toxin your body changes into a non toxic molecule. But the reason your body focuses on eliminating it first and not focusing on ketone production is that your body goes for the fastest easiest energy currently available. Alcohol has four times the energy of fructose and can only be accessed for energy after the liver processes it. A 12oz beer has the same effect on your liver as a can of Coca Cola. They do the same thing to your liver and are processed in a similar way and have about the same energy yield. This is less work for the liver than converting fats into ketones so that’s what causes the slow down on production.
Thank you David for your insight…you are right I am trying to hard to prove to myself that I can do it more than the desire for the possible medical advantages. I am learning so much each day and have tweaked as I have went. I do like the fasting and the way I feel after having accomplished my fasting goal. At the end of the day I am following what feels good and is good for me I guess. Good luck to you and again I truly appreciate your time.