Now carnivore, can't stomach beef ribeye and other issues

#30

Also:

  • Rendered Fat. I’m the same. Can’t digest it. Would love to swim in the stuff and guzzle from tankards but hell no. Not right now at least.
  • Wild game, Fish, Pork and other non red meats don’t give me the same nutrition and or feeling of well being that fatty beef and lamb do.
  • Liver doesn’t work for me. Actually makes me feel quite bad. Don’t know why. I’ve read it might be it’s Vitamin A content. Seem to do just fine on beef and lamb heart though.
  • Daily Journals and a wall calendar help me work through this initial period whilst I fine tune ‘My’ optimal diet.

Trying to think of everything else. In constant dialogue with my body at the minute. Married to it. Hoping it’ll soon become lifestyle and not challenge.

(Ron) #31

An that’s the one I use as well!:+1:

(Tommy) #32

I have tried 5-6 digestive enzymes, I went through a bunch of them with a naturopath. I adapt to them within a couple days. If I continue to take them it’s just like I’ve never taken them, they supplant my native enzymes. When I go off them, it takes a month to get production back up.

I’m not drinking water before or after eating for an hour, in order to maximize my digestive enzymes and bile production.

(Tommy) #33

Thanks for the detailed post oward12!

I’m now 2 weeks in and have lost 6.25% of my bodyweight, and I feel weak to the point I’m spending the best days of summer inside. I do have a reduction in inflammation, which is very notable in my vision, however my skin and eyes are showing some signs of inflammation again, and my joints are less padded than they were before, likely due to reduced water content in the body. My nerves are also shot the last 3 days to the point where loud noises disturb me more than they should and I’ve had some migraines. Unfortunately I cannot work, study, or really spend time with the family like this, and I’ve got some big events happening in the next 5-6 weeks.

For food I switched to beef back ribs and short ribs, and have been able to eat without nausea but the cravings for high carb foods have increased. I suspect the connective tissue in the ribs may be causing the inflammation in my skin and eyes, but I’m not sure. I’m going to try supplementing with some smoked salmon to see if fish oils help.

I’m trying to find the best fat/protein ratio. The ribs are quite fatty, and I bought beef fat to fry and eat (better than bacon). I also bought a bunch of marrow bones for meals. So I’m going to play with these for the next couple day. The cravings I’m having are bizarre, I’ve had a really clean diet for a long time, basically broccoli, steak, apples, and dates. Now I cut out those 3 and I’m craving cake/cookie type bullshit I haven’t eaten in many, many years.

OK, salt is a big one for me. I crave salt to the point where I buy the expensive french sea salt and eat it by the pinch during the day. I’ve always drank an excessive amount of water and feel short on electrolytes. As I mentioned, I’m taking the “no more muscle cramps” electrolyte drops, but only in very small quantites (a drop a day). It does have sulfate though, so I may drop that for a bit just in case. Did you have salt cravings like I do? Or get dehydrated or consume a lot of water, more than a gallon on an average day?

I haven’t been taking vitamins for this time on the diet. About 3 years ago when I was having a severe autoimmune reaction I did some serious testing and started compounding my own specialized-ratio B vitamins without caking agents or other fillers, with ingredients sourced from top manufacturing places in the USA. They kept my inflammation at bay enough to live day to day, but I didn’t find them to be a complete cure, though I know others have.

It does suck to not be able to eat bone broth. I think that’s part of my problem, my autoimmune condition is to attack my joints, and it turns out that when I eat connective tissue or collagen my body starts attacking itself in the same areas.

Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement, I’ll keep updating.

#34

Hi Tommy, I’m in my 5th week of keto, and find I need some salt at times. I pour some into the palm of my hand and lick it off! And then follow it w/ some water. I cannot eat beef every day; pre-keto I didn’t eat it much at all, except for hamburgers and the rare filet mignon. I don’t like ribeye much, although I’ve cooked some porterhouse that was good. So I am mixing it up w/ salmon, tuna, other fish, pork, chicken, duck etc. Had some pork ribs yesterday that were delicious! :smiley:
KCKO

(Bunny) #35

I have this one (digestive enzymes by source essentials) too and some raw refrigerated probiotics (garden of life) certified organic (the only probiotic that was USDA CO out of all the ones they had…lol).

The reason I do this is my suspicion about macronutrients and how the fat, protein and carbohydrate are digested and synthesized by the digestive enzymes and how it interacts with the gut flora biome ratios and the presence of mucus in the small intestines (with a ketogenic metabolism) and how my body is going to process glucose (what little I get) which determines whether or not what I am eating is going to be stored as fat or used for fuel?

…And the reason for the ‘stall’ or ‘plateau’ when people are gradually losing weight or trying to burn the fat! And may explain why the ketogenic diet does not work for some people in the way of losing weight or burning the fat long-term; as soon as they start upping the carbs and sugars for a period of time they are not resistant enough to withstand it because the gut flora biome ratios are out of whack, then the bodies metabolism does a threefold slam dunk on them and puts the fat right back where it was?

The other route (band-aid approach?) is to have the biome tested (fecal sample) and eat according to what a biome transcription database (biome ratio actuarial profile analysis compared to the general populous e.g. obese vs. non-obese, cancer potential etc.) tells you to eat?

This is all pure speculation on my part and could be placebo without the “proper isolation of variables” as Tim Ferris puts it, but just thought I would share my ideas and thoughts about this and how I do this!

#36

Sounds like you’ve got it rough Tommy. Don’t give up though man. Keep searching.
Regarding Salt. So when I started I found it helped for say the first week or so. Because I dropped so much water weight and I was rebalancing. Then over week 3 I noticed my body stabilise. But I was getting this weird lethargy and depression after meals and I heavily suspected salt to be the cause.

So on Day 16 I said I’d drop it and go 2 weeks without, expecting an adaption period after reading about how the kidneys need time to readjust and see how I felt. So todays Day 27 and things are great. I won’t be reintroducing salt, I have no requirement for it. There’s adequate sodium in the meat I eat. Initially meat tasted bland and I craved salt for the first 7 Days. Then everything changed. Meat tasted perfect. I slept better. I woke up easier. Joint and muscle pain disappeared. My morning press ups became easier and my reps are increasing. I’ve got better satiety. I’m eating one meal a day unintentionally. I eat and the hunger doesn’t return until the next day. I can run 10km fasted without drinking. The weirdest thing was the sores and scabs in my nose cleared. They never clear. They always linger. They’ve gone. And with that my tooth sensitivity went as well. That’s not something I suspect. It’s clear as day to me. I don’t fall asleep after eating any longer and even after a 90 minute hard football game for my local team I have zero cramps. Nothing. I’d always be cramping up with my foot on the accelerator pedal driving home after the game. No longer. My whole body feels so much better. I’m so much more productive. I was a slouch for the first 16 days.

I think salt is massively overused on these diets. People over consume it, then they drink because they are excessively thirsty, which then flushes out their electrolytes beyond replenishment, which then leaves a bit of a problem. As ‘The Bear’ Owlsey implied it is a chemical and a poison to the body. He didn’t consume any for 50 years except in the hard cheeses he consumed. I’ve recently listened to 2 ‘Human Performance Outliers’ podcasts. One with Charles Washington who is a long term carnivore. He doesn’t consume salt. He runs marathons fasted and doesn’t drink for the whole 26.2 miles with no problem. Secondly with Professor Tim Noakes who is highly regarded in this field. He implied it is impossible to have an electrolyte imbalance eating meat and drinking to thirst. Impossible. He said that he suspects everyone’s craving for salt and use of it is more down to it having a stimulant effect very much like coffee etc and people never break that cycle. So they keep craving. There’s plenty enough sodium in the meat to reach your requirements. I would highly recommend giving them a listen but anecdotally for myself I feel much better without. Perform better and inflammation has disappeared.

I never understood the salt fantasy on this diet. For a group of people so self aware and open minded enough to say we evolved to eat meat and that’s all I’m eating. And yet they think there is a heavy requirement for these far away salts that we wouldn’t of had during evolution. I certainly don’t think we would of been covering our food in it. A lot of long time Carnivores like the Andersons and Amber O’Hearn, people who are the true examples of success eating this way don’t consume salt. So that’s pretty strong evidence for me.

So that’s my musings on the subject. I wish you the very best man. Sounds like you deserve a bit of a break and a few answers. Maybe worth a little trial salt free. Just allow for adaption in all areas.

Oh and regarding the cravings. I’m not sure. I’m still getting them. Sometimes I wonder if the brain just wants that small amount of exogenous carbohydrates just to run a little more efficiently. But I’m sticking with it and riding them out. I know Mark Bell (another proponent of the diet) adds in half an apple a day and he says this helps him. Not something I’ve tried.

(Chris) #37

Try other beef cuts and lower your fat. Also, don’t drink water for at least an hour before and after eating to limit watery stools.

(Tommy) #38

I decided to try 1/2 cup of cooked broccoli last night to see how I responded. I got instant inflammation and arthritis symptoms within 2 hours. What was really interesting, or puzzling, is how my visual acuity decreased and I got inflammatory response within one minute of the first bite of broccoli entering my mouth. This has got to be some sort of immune reaction obviously connected to the nervous system. Bizarre. I’m back on carnivore today, no real cravings but it’s easier to eat meat and I had a lot more energy last night and today, despite decreased visual acuity and inflammation. I’m also quite certain that the connective tissue even in the ribs is bothering me, so I’m looking to avoid it now.

(Julie Harrington) #39

Have you had genetic testing like MTHFR?

(Tommy) #40

Yes, I believe I indicated using a custom formula of methylated b vitamins above. I have one mutation on MTHFR, however I cannot supplement with methylfolate or methylb12. MTHFL causes a weak voice and methylB12 causes severe headaches. I left out folate as I couldn’t find one that worked and use hydroxyB12. I’m taking very small amounts of the custom formula sporadically on the carnivore diet.

#41

another vote for digestive enzymes here.

I went through a similar thing (but nowhere so severe) where meat was sitting like lead and repulsing me. I had to get creative with cheese and fish, roe and eggs…

But the digestive enzymes have helped tremendously.

And for the love of Pete IGNORE all the zealotous ZC balderdash about how you don’t need supplements on this marvellous, perfect, ultimately heroic way of eating.

Most people flourish on ZC without supplements. That’s great for them.
They should carry on doing that and be profoundly grateful that they are able to do it.

But those of us with digestive issues _don’t digest properly _ do we?
The clue is in the description.

There is absolutely no point throwing nutritious meat endless down your neck if it isn’t getting properly absorbed, is there?

Take me:
Bad tummy bug.
Switched to ZC to help dodgy guts to recover.
8 months on, still unable to cope with any veg or fibre.
Still happily ZC but need digestive enzymes for more than 5oz of red meat at a time.
Recently tested as deficient in several vitamins and now being investigated for malabsorption issues by doc (despite eating liver and organ meats regularly)

So please listen to your own body and prioritise your own needs over ZC dogma about supplements being unnecessary for ‘us ZCers’.
Because they ARE necessary for some of us.

(Omar) #42

Very well said.

I am very much like you described.I am almost zc I do not tolerate vigitables but I tolerate meat .enzymes help with constipation.

(Beth) #43

Have you tried an extended fast to re-set the immune system? If all else fails, it worked for me.
I had similar digestive problems and four or five diagnosed autoimmune conditions. I spent years doing Wahls protocol and AIP, which helped, but eventually saw diminishing returns. Extended fasting made for drastic improvements for me.

(Tommy) #44

Good info. I will give them a go once more. Now that I’m on carnivore maybe it will be a different effect. I’m quite sure, given what’s happened, that my liver is functioning ineffeciently. However I have this magical skill to adapt to things like this almost immediately and then become dependent on them.

I still have a stock of Thorne Bio-Gest, any personal experience with this one? I use other Thorne supplements and they typically are some of the best.

https://www.iherb.com/pr/Thorne-Research-Bio-Gest-60-Capsules/71891

(Tommy) #45

I have come to the same conclusion about fasting and am considering an extended fast even, 2-3 weeks, however I like the 2-4 day fasts better for practicality as mentioned in this article. How long did you fast to see results?

(Beth) #46

I saw results after three days, but I got the best results when I focused on fasting for about a month.
First I did 13 days on water, black coffee and the occasional spoonful of coconut oil, and some bone broth.
After that I fasted between 24 to 90 hours over the remaining two weeks of the month (June).
I kept that up until my wedding and vacation two weeks ago. Was able to eat offending foods at times during vacation in moderation without a return of symptoms, but I’m sure that if I continued, symptoms will return. We just got back so now I am experimenting, trying different foods and trying to establish a daily eating window that works for me.

(Dustin) #47

Tommy, are you still doing carnivore?
I found your post because i have similar issues. I have been mostly keto for 2+ years, and im fine, but when i do carnivore i dont want to be too far away from bathroom. Im going to go to vitamin store soon and try Lipase. I read an article tg hat said that would help.

(Tommy) #48

@Dustin

I am doing ribeyes + apples. I’m also doing a bit of ginger honey tea at the moment because I was around little kids and they got me sick.

The ribeye and apples works for the most part. My joints are most fluid and inflammation is lowest when I only eat ribeye, but I started to get depressed, I needed some form of carbs, plus my wife said my breath is awful when I only eat ribeye.

I also started back again on methyl B12, methylfolate, and folinic acid, plus my previous B vitamin regimen. My brain is working very vast and at higher capacity, so I’m going to continue on my course and continue ramping things up. I no longer have the awful dead feeling in the left half of my head when I take the MB12. I suspect I really needed it all along but I had to titrate up in tiny doses and endure the headaches while the processes started back up in my brain. It was well worth it.

If you’re interested in this protocol, I adapted mine through FREDDD’s protocol on Phoenix Rising. Caledonia and some other posters have summarized it well.

(Omar) #49

@tr864

Good if it is working for you

If I may ask what was the main reason for this diet. If you eating apples then this is not carnivore diet. How many apples you eat a day?

I am on meat + Orange peels. I am experimenting for my diverticulitis. I did not notice significant improvment on focus and concentration but little improvment to my diverticulitis.