I don’t know mate.
Keto worked for me…I’m actually, for the first time, hitting my BMI target.
Family members are telling me not to lose any more weight.
I’m like, ‘Piss off, you slated me when I was fat.’ No pleasing some people!
It’s a balance. I hope you find yours. 
Some people gain fat on carnivore too, without those things…
I don’t know why it’s so odd that the body can store up fat as fat… It’s pretty logical and very useful for survival… Protein may be a magical macro that didn’t become fat often (but we hardly eat insane amounts of it anyway, most of us don’t) but fat is great fuel and can get stored.
Fat gain and loss is purely a CICO for many people anyway. I may eat sugar, I will lose fat as long as I eat little enough, the same for my SO but he can do it with lots of sugar while I must be moderate (though if I walked 15 hours a day, it probably wouldn’t have been a problem). And I may do keto, I never will lose fat unless I figure out how to eat little (didn’t happen yet but I have theories :D) and even carnivore isn’t enough there, it does other great things to me though.
But I actually didn’t want to talk about CICO just that fat isn’t a magical thing we can eat galore without consequences for our fat mass. Maybe we can, maybe we can’t. People do gain weight and even fat with very low total carbs. It actually would be quite creepy if we couldn’t gain fat on keto…
Why do you eat so much carby food then? I truly don’t understand. Or you need sugar due to your condition or something? I am not knowledgeable enough about diabetes though I have a relative and know a few things…
Your level of carb intake is more than enough to mess with me and I surely never could lose fat at that level.
Wait, the original thought was not losing fat. It doesn’t even matter if one can get fat from fat. Us normal people (maybe some are special, I can imagine many things) clearly can’t expect fat-loss while eating too much fat… Even if we eat a tiny fragment of your carb intake.
Oh those numbers aren’t CICO’s fault. I lost fat through CICO (what else? I am not magical. I didn’t track but I did for some days to figure out how should I eat to stay low enough), eating only 2000 kcal on most days and I wasn’t even active… 1200 kcal usually isn’t enough for me for my first meal even being a short woman, and as a healthy one, my energy need isn’t that insanely low. Calculators (at least there were some numbers too, not just my mere biological gender) gave me bigger numbers but still too tiny ones so I just ate as little as I could (2000 kcal, sometimes more :)). And it worked well for some time but not nearly all the way.
These numbers can’t be calculated. There are guesses and they may be very off…
Activity matters for sure. It helps some of us, vital for some but makes some people too hungry, it’s odd to me as activity typically lowers my calorie intake unless it’s much but then I get a decent deficit anyway… But people are different and some do get way hungrier that way.
I am not talking about 2000 calories.
Most calorie calculators are set an awful lot lower for women - more like 1200. I’m glad you didn’t have that experience.
Nope, I’m not. Hormones 100% matter. But so do the calories. The problem is blindly accepting that one matters and completely disregarding the others. Our metabolisms are way too complex for such a simple approach.
We all store fat differently, that’s genetic.I’ve got a buddy who will continue to store belly fat until he tips over and remain lean everywhere else. Another who has the famous spare tire look, yet his face is scrawny and has a neck like a pipe cleaner. Mine tends to go everywhere. We don’t get to target fat in any specific area, only liposuction can do that. All we can do is reduce bodyfat as a whole until it comes off.
Don’t over-science it. Track everything you eat for a week in Crononmeter, then go get your metabolic rate measured. Willing to bet you’ll be very unpleasantly surprised, just as I was.
I apologize if I missed this earlier in this thread, but my guess is that you could have the belly fat only due to having fatty liver disease and possibly a fatty pancreas (very likely reading about your type 2).
I was exactly as you described, almost no body fat anywhere except this huge gut. I am an avid exerciser/weight lifter and I could never figure out why I could never get my midsection to shrink. I was diagnosed after getting extremely ill with advanced stage fatty liver disease. Mine was so far advanced that even though I have made great progress, I have long term damage that I will never be able to fully reverse.
Again, I may have missed this info, but if you haven’t done so recently, please ask your Dr. to order a complete liver panel for you including a liver fiber test as well as an upper abdominal ultrasound. Please don’t let what happened to me happen to you.
Anyway, I realize that you have been living Keto for many years and usually that is enough to fix both of those conditions. However, if your body reacts similar to what I have experienced, that may not be enough. My body will only begin to cleanse my liver with deep ketosis. I have to fast regularly and have to eat pretty much straight carnivore to see any improvement at all. And even at that, it is a very slow process. Just reading about the berries and vegetables that you listed at the beginning of this thread would be enough for my body to not only stop burning the stored liver fat, but also quickly start to reverse any progress that I have made.
So, as others have mentioned above, I would seriously consider going as near to strict carnivore as possible as well as implementation of a fasting protocol. Don’t expect to make that transition over night, but the sooner you get as many carbs out of your system as possible, the better it will be for you. And then, please see your Dr. to discuss the tests I mentioned above (Ignore if you have already had them done in the last few months and I missed it in the thread).
Best of luck.
Ahhh, you did not look too closely at my Glycemic Load and my carb budget. I am very low carb. Anything more and I might as well see a lawyer and get my will in order.
Trouble is most allopaths around these parts is they have no understanding how to treat T2. One does. He is an Emergency Room doctor and the one who diagnosed me, but you have to hurt yourself to see him. Finding a competent allopath for T2 and getting him to go along with what I want will be next to impossible.
My wife has been telling me I have “non-alcoholic fatty liver disease” for years (as she just reminded me). Looking at Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), I have “Liver Wind” out the wazooo (American slang for “plentiful”): the key symptom of Liver Wind being irascibility. (Wife confirms it.) Also strong or vivid dreams, a stiff neck, dark or scanty urine, and constipation. Got them all. So poop (not my actual word)!
http://www.tcmstudent.com/journal/Liver%20Wind.html
Love their colorful descriptions. TCM is 3000 years old and they have kept their descriptions. “Wind”: think of a tree being assaulted so hard by the wind the its leave are starting to be torn off. The “wind” being bad things your body is throwing at it. An OMD would both treat the resulting liver damage and remove the cause of the wind. An allopath would only treat the damage, if he actually could. It is not in their bad of tricks.
There is a full OMD an hour and a half’s drive away one way. Maybe I should bite the bullet. He has a full western medical degree (PHd) as well as the seven years of herbal pharmacology, so he could order up these test. He is also a cardiac specialist. He probably won’t order up tests as OMD’s diagnose things differently and I am sure he has seen this stuff before hundreds of times. OMD’s do not look at the organs separately as do allopaths, so he would probably go after several factors at the same time. I still have my free(ish) initial Medicare physical still, so, maybe…
I think I will do an extended fast more than a day until I reek of keytones. Really, really reek. I have noticed that I am not hungry that much after a one day total fast. And maybe lower my Glycemic load to under 8 from 15. (Oh goody, I get to eat three green beans!) I really can not afford the day lost to seeing a doctor due to my responsibilities though.
Those stupid ketone pee sticks only check for one form on keytone and completely miss me. They caught me the first year on keto, but not since then. And it is obvious from the smell.
Thank you for the wonderful, insightful response and the time your spent with me! God bless!
-T
You are certainly welcome. Please let me know what you find out once you get to see your Dr.
And what you remove with lipo returns elsewhere on your body. My father had a gut, but nothing like mine. My wife agrees with midnightmoon about “non-alcoholic liver disease”. I have learned after 48 years of marriage (if you are from California, that is to the SAME woman) to trust her judgement. She did a lot of research on the matter.
Would you be a bit more specific? “Transform it” is really nebulous, as is “own it”.
I took martial arts as a kid. I am well aware of those breathing techniques and they do help after being removed from a stressful situation, but not so helpful if I am stressed out for an entire day.
I do not know if you read Midnightmoon’s and my letters, but I could very like have “Liver Wind” caused by “non-alcoholic fatty liver disease”. Fixing that would go a long way to helping roll with the stress punches.
If you regain fat sure, it returns other places because you’ve removed the fat cells in that area, but you gained fat… because you gained fat, not because you sucked out fat cells from one place. Not sure what your point is there.
If you have a gut from NAFLD, than it’s pretty easy to determine, aside from just being scanned for it, you can feel it. If your fat is on the inside and not subcutaneous, then you won’t have soft fat under your skin, it’ll feel the same if you were lean with a fat stomach, you’ll just be fat anyway. If your belly is hard, or you can see your abs despite the belly it’s on the inside.
[quote=“lfod14, post:57, topic:114807”]
And what you remove with lipo returns elsewhere on your body.
If you regain fat sure, it returns other places because you’ve removed the fat cells in that area, but you gained fat… because you gained fat, not because you sucked out fat cells from one place. Not sure what your point is there.[/quote]
It is a “closed loop control system”. Your body will return to stasis (reference point). It is like the cruise control on your car. Lipo does not lower the reference point.
Which one is NAFLD? Soft or hard? My gut is quite hard.
Your abdomen will be hard in your situation since you don’t have any other access fat deposits. Again, we are describing almost exactly what I faced before I was diagnosed.
