Non-diabetic - unstable blood sugar numbers


(Megan Hutchison) #1

The simple question - I am new to intermitment fasting & keto even tho I have eaten low or very low carb for several years. When I fast even 16-18 hours (and feel fine) - my blood sugar seems to fluctuate a lot. To start off with I seem to have a lot of"Dawn phenomenon", which was less than my “norm” for the first couple days of keto but now my fasting # is back up into the high 90s. Then as the day progresses when I continue the fast through the morning, I will get lows like 68-75 not hypo and then spike even as high as 100bg without eating anything.

Salt does seem to help some keeping it stable, could this just be an electrolyte issue? The second time I did an 18 hour fast I did get a headache, salt fixed it. But since then I’ve had no headaches or other noticible issues except the fluctuating blood sugar. I have always seemed to need lots of sea salt even before this.

A bit of background: ate a super sugar and starch laden standard American diet until I was 18. Because of autoimmune type health issues, over the last 12 years I’ve been low/lower carb and higher good fats, with periods of very low carb but never Keto. Part of my health issues (chronic fatigue diagnosed at 16 & Hashimotos, with “normal” thyroid hormones, at 27) also create low energy which has been improved through diet changes (no gluten, and long periods of autoimmune protocol diet).

But I continued to struggle with energy and found information about too low of carb being bad for thyroid etc, so I tried increasing carbs (still pretty low, eating maybe 130 a day).

This has just been a miserable rollercoaster of eating enough but not too much carbs (and finding AIP friendly carbs is no fun).

Then because of our family history of diabetes and my borderline and fluctuating fasting glucose #s, my sister introduced me to Dr. Fung’s obesity code & guide to fasting. And fear of killing my energy even more aside, decided to give it a try. Bypass the need for carbs at all for energy.

But then I have weird blood sugar? Right before I started this I had my fasting insulin checked & it was 6. And my A1c has stayed at 5.3.

Any similar experiences of things to try appreciated. I will continue to use trial and error to find something that works for me. (And share what I learn for anyone else dealing with the same thing). I am very motivated to see if this can work for me, not only to stabilize and prevent insulin and sugar issues, but also the possible aid in healing of autoimmune disease causing leaky gut.


(Ron) #2

Your numbers look good to me.
There are many many factors that can effect BS levels and these levels will fluctuate many times through-out the day.
The fact that you started this thread says that you have some stress about this and “stress” can elevate BS levels as well.
It is good to keep an eye on thing but as long as they are in normal ranges I would just KCKO. :slightly_smiling_face:


(Megan Hutchison) #3

Yeah that’s the interesting thing the numbers on the surface are within ok ranges, but just behave oddly (like a high spike of 101bg at 20 hours fasting, then quickly falling to 84 after I “break” the fast with some coconut butter.

Stress/cortisol are an interesting possibility as well - and I have been doing what I can to keep “controllable” stress levels down.

All in all I definitely know I already feel better ditching the carbs and going keto. I would mostly like to do what I can to make sure fasting is being beneficial to my whole system/not putting too much stress. :slight_smile:

Thanks for the input, and I welcome all more experienced keto wisdom.

Edit: of note also, is I have been known to get reactive hypoglycemia when eating a large serving of carbohydrates.


(Ron) #4

Megan,
I might suggest to not fast right now since you are just getting started. You will have much better success and an easier time going through the adaptation process if you maintain an eating regime that reaches your total macro’s. After you are adapted is when fasting is beneficial.
Here is a link about this topic and in the top right of your screen is an eyeglass that is the search function that you can find this discussed many times as well as many other questions you might have.
Let us know what we can do to help further?


(Chris W) #5

how new to keto are you? Your post a little bit scatter brained as to what your carb intake really is.

Keep in mind that your liver does keep some glycogen/glucose on board pretty much all the time and it will release it if you hit the floor of your level. If you have had insulin issues in the past it will take some time to work that out, and your BG will be less stable than some peoples. Things like exercise and adrenal fatigue will effect it as well.


(Megan Hutchison) #6

Thanks for the link. There is lots of starting out into, but I hadn’t been able to find anything about fluctuating blood sugars is why I posted. And I probably will try stepping back the fasting, but I actually started with that first because of Fung’s books and then started looking closer at the keto aspect, which I’ve known about for a while but always thought was “not for me”.

I think limited fasting will still continue just because I’m NOT hungry in the morning anymore since eating keto. I have always been an avid breakfast eater (centering around protein and fat because my whole life carb based breakfast has left me feeling sick). Though this morning I woke up with a voracious appetite after having an accidental 24 hour fast yesterday - an 18 hour planned fast turned into 24 when work & family obligations kept me from getting home to eat. Today I definitely will be feasting!

Thanks again


(Megan Hutchison) #7

Thanks - I haven’t done keto myself before but I’ve been no stranger to what it is for years. I am sorry if I seem scattered - just trying to summarize a 12 year journey in a short post :slight_smile: here is the long version:

I went cold turkey off carbs first in 2006 because of asthma and the beginnings of rheumatoid arthritis at age 18. I wasn’t counting them at that time, but I went to a diet of mostly meat and fat, including lots of raw dairy. Carbs I did eat on occasion still, including from the dairy, some potatoes, occasional soaked/sprouted bread. (Diet changes courtesy of learning about Westin price /nourishing traditions). Sugar became completely taboo as it would cause flare ups in my symptoms. I was overweight but not terribly so & 20lbs melted off of me and stayed off for a few years, gaining the usual worried comments from friends of why did I lose so much/I seemed to thin now hah. Asthma went away, symptoms of arthritis disappeared. Healthiest I’d been in my life, which for me meant still getting a lot of colds and had horrible allergies. But considering where I came from I was happy.

Then slowly because of economics (and tastiness but mostly economics) breads and grains creeped in - making home made bread mostly to save money and to “fill in” as we could no longer afford the grass fed meat and fat centric diet. Stuck to mostly whole grains, and never at the volume I ate them as a teen (when I could eat a bowl of pasta AND a load of garlic bread in one sitting). Still lots of good fats.

I was eating little enough and was healthy enough I only gained maybe 10 pounds. In an effort to lose it again I decided to “cut carbs” I can’t remember for sure but I think I was shooting for 50g a day. I did lose the weight but my chronic issues with fatigue became worse. I read plenty about too low of carb causing energy issues so I added them back in - and promptly gained ten pounds. But I felt pretty good and was still content. Right after that in 2014? came a VERY hectic and stressful period of my life : working night shifts, doing hard manual labor, and working out regularly at the gym. The work I was doing provided food and I tried to avoid the junk and bring my own when I could but I was HUNGRY. And since of course you can’t out exercise diet, despite being the most active I’d been in my life, the pounds piled on. And I was exhausted. I spent the next year fighting horrible fatigue and going back to my healthy whole foods diet didn’t help. I was convinced low carb had killed my energy so I kept at trying to just eat lower carb but not as low. Which is a LOT less than a S.A.D. but was around the 100-150 range but I don’t think I actually counted. Slowly my innate “fear” of carbs reduced this to around 75 but I still didn’t lose weight.

A year later a lovely acupuncturist had me get thorough blood work. And I found a few things. My A1C was 5.2. but my fasting glucose was 105. And I tested positive for thyroid antibodies - aka Hashimotos. Thankfully my thyroid levels themselves were in pretty good shape, but I had all the symptoms of low thyroid.

I researched and immediately dropped gluten. My energy level improved and I managed to trim back a few pounds over the next couple years. But my energy still fluctuated and I still had high fasting glucose whether I ate 50 carbs or 100 in a day. I finally sucked it up and did an AIP (autoimmune protocol) version of whole 30 last summer, still faithfully trying to keep my carb intake to a minimum of 100g a day via eating allowed starchy sources such as sweet potatoes and cassava. And it worked. My energy improved drastically. I lost 7lbs in that first month. Then I continued almost as strictly AIP for a couple more months. and I did pretty well, lost a few more pounds. Only “cheated” the AIP a couple times eating nightshades or butter or cheese when not at home. Kept fighting to make sure I was eating “enough carbs”.

Despite going off of AIP for a few months, because of family health problems and moving to a new state, I managed to keep off most, tho not all, of what I had lost doing AIP. Still trying to eat “enough carbs”. My energy continued to fluctuate. And through all this time - my fasting glucose remained 100+. Occasionally if I ate sweets or a big carb meal, even higher. As high as 120 on a couple of occasions.

I knew I was having insulin/blood sugar issues, but if lower carb meant even lower energy what was I supposed to do? It made me want to cry.

Then I read Fung’s work about fasting. And then read more detail about keto. That it wasn’t just eating less carbs and more fat but it meant CHANGING my energy source. Maybe this could work? You can find plenty of doctors and other “experts” even some who have tried it, who say fasting and keto is not for someone with Hashimotos. Not for someone with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Women should be careful with it. Etc. Etc.

But I had to try it. What I was doing clearly wasn’t working anyways.

So here I am. Like I said I started doing 16 hour fasts first, did it a couple times. Got a cold and was NOT hungry and hardly ate for a couple days. But wasn’t keto yet. Then a few days later I decided should do keto as well. I am working on reducing protein intake (most I’ve had in a day since starting is 75g which I know is still high for a 5’4" woman, though I do have a lot of muscle for my size). I try to eat a lot of vegetables so with that not counting fiber I’ve eaten 15-25g of incidental carbs per day for the last week. Since day 3 of keto I’ve been reading positive for ketones on the ketostix so I know I am heading in the right direction. I would like to get a blood ketone meter as well as I continue but for now it’s not in the budget.

That’s the long story of me. I am sleeping better, I am waking up less groggy. So even tho I am still low energy bill would say so far it’s a success. Because of the newness and my volatility - I am considering trying to maybe incorporate some “fat fasts” instead of true fasts while my system continues to try and stabilize. Also because I don’t have that much weight to lose (maybe 20-30lbs) but am mostly in it for other health reasons.

Thanks to all who share their experiences! I am glad to have a forum like this for support.


(Pat ) #8

I also deal with unusual high blood sugar. Long history of normal weight and “prediabetes” with the exception ten years ago during menopause, uncontrollable HUNGER and weight gain, A1C peaking at 6.3. Weight gain was fixed quickly with Atkins diet but hunger issues continued to arise on occasion.

A1c past 10 years 5.3, normal weight, regular exercise. I love IF and usually eat one meal a day. I eat keto/VLC and do better with slightly more protein and fewer veggies.

Fasting blood sugar 100, and rises with exercise despite fasting. Lots of herbals to maintain post prandial swings and very uncomfortable jittery hunger after eating. If I I eat higher carbs blood sugar quickly elevates and stays at 160-200 for several hours and I develop severe cramps. Electrolytes do help somewhat.

Has anyone tried berberine or acv at 5 am to see if this can help? Also trying chromium other herbals, and probiotics.


(Chris W) #9

Alright you still never answered my first basic question
how new to keto are you? Days weeks months?

Although I can appreciate jumping in head long, you may screw yourself up if you don’t take a few steps before skipping ahead. Fasting is a powerful tool, but like any powerful tool if you wield it incorrectly it can cause more damage than it fixes. I understand that hasimotos is a problem, but I know there are people here with it and they are doing good.
Fat fasts work the best if your system is ready to do that, if you are not even keto adapted at fat fast is of little use, and before fat adaption it may help but its not like doing it fat adapted. One of the amazing things with this diet if you insulin is low enough (hopefully) you become catabolic and even while eating things start to repair themselves. One of the targets of Dr. Fungs work is people with diabetes as you know. They cannot always achieve low insulin without fasting, so for them achieving what I can with minimal carbs they have to fast. But they do correct their systems when they do and gradually get better. I would try and just let fasts happen, if you push your system to much you won’t achieve the repairs it may need to do. IF does a lot for this IMHO but I did not start that unitl I was just about fat adapted. I tried resticting fat about 3-4 weeks in and I felt terrible, once I corrected that problem a few weeks later I realized that I needed more fat and that took care of most of my energy problems. Salt had already fixed the rest, I rarely get tired anymore, I used to be tired all the time.


(Megan Hutchison) #10

Sorry I believed I had said it’s only been a couple weeks - and also to clarify I am largely using actual feelings of hunger to guide me, I haven’t been hungry. Just Yesterday that changed though, and wow did I EAT!!! (fat of course).

Thank you for your concern - and also the insight on the fat fasts. I also researched that more before trying and agree not interested for now.

Have a wonderful delicious fat filled day! I will! :-):smile:


(Jay AM) #11

Looking at your numbers, besides the somewhat lower ones, they aren’t concerning. The lower ones could just be caused by uptake. The higher ones could be caused by production, carbs being released from stores. I’m betting you’re somewhat less insulin resistant than many people due to your history. Insulin is released in bursts so, it’d go up with production and drop with a spike and uptake. It all looks very regular to me. Now, if you were insulin resistant before and lost that resistance from changing your nutrition but your body insists in overproducing insulin, that might explain the lower numbers. If you start to feel sickly in any way, don’t continue fasting. Definitely keep up with your electrolytes of course. Are your numbers stable when eating day to day?