Thanks.
I don’t think those drugs are advisable (or even available) without medical supervision.
Is my protein intake too high? 120-30g?
No Weight Loss
richard
(Richard Morris)
#62
Big fan of the TRX here. My PT used it all the time, but I need to get myself one too.
jamestorie
(James storie)
#63
I drive a truck and I walk around when I’m unloading and think about all the ways I can connect it to my truck! Right now all I have is a jump rope. I may add a kettle bell as well for swings.
richard
(Richard Morris)
#64
I asked my GP’s advice before I went Keto, especially as I was on diabetic medication … so that always goes without saying. Berberine is regulated as a supplement, but IMO it should be treated as a pharmaceutical like metformin.
If you have 100 kgs of lean mass I’d say you are right on the money.
Some people can tolerate more protein, and some people believe they can train their body to being able to tolerate more protein by slowly increasing it. It wouldn’t surprise me, the human body is a remarkably adaptable machine.
Personally I make a lot of insulin from a protein challenge. You’ve probably see my experiment when 25g of whey had me making so much for 6 hours that I was using glucose faster than I could make it. https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/4253 So for me protein means insulin, and insulin means body fat isn’t contributing to my daily energy - so I eat more.
As you pointed out above correct protein amounts is a hotly debated topic.
The Australian nutrient reference values ( https://www.nrv.gov.au/nutrients/protein ) set the estimate average requirement for a 51 yo old male at 0.68g/kg LBM (roughly 52g a day) and the recommended daily intake (sufficient for 97.5% of people) for a 51 yo male at 84g/kg LBM (roughly 64g/day).
That would be the absolute minimum I would ever suggest people considering. I myself ate at the RDI for 2 months and did not lose significant lean mass (according to a DEXA I took before and after) but we’re all individuals.
Just to get an idea how broad that community is, here is the data at the foundation of the Australian reference values ( from this study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12499330 )
it’s a meta-analysis comparing how much nitrogen people gain or lose for different amounts of protein eaten - if they are in pewrfect Nitrogen lanace then they are eating their minimum requirement. That range between the green arrows is the range … so at the top end 2 people needed almost 1g/kg LBM to be in nitrogen balance. And at the bottom end one mutant was able to do that at 0.3 g/kg LBM.
Where we each fit on that scale is going to be unique and specific.
I’m not going to tell anyone how much protein they should have because I don’t know … I’ll tell you how much I have and my basis and you can use that to work out how much you should have … and then test it. You might be able to tolerate more protein and still lose weight.
mikki
(eat more)
#65
do it! 
you can do kb swings with almost anything…cooler, heavy wrench, etc (if it’s on the lighter side just do more reps)
when i do them i do my swings and then immediately jump rope until i can’t…then rest…so kb/jumprope “supersets” 
i also love medicine ball slam/jump rope sets…you don’t have to have a medicine ball to do them…anything that you can slam on the ground (secure sandbag, industrial bag of feed, flour, etc)…
of course if it bounces it’s an easier exercise than having to get down and pick it up…but i don’t think you are looking for easier
also check out the Nike+ training club app…tons of bodyweight circuits and you can choose the workout based on focus, duration, and equipment
how’s that for a thread jack? LOL
jellybelly
#67
I have about 60-65kg lbm.
I would struggle to eat half the protein I currently eat as I would be left very hungry. I know that from experience. As I’ve said, I’m not sure what fat, that doesn’t have protein, I could add to compensate.
gardengirlkp
(Karen Parrott)
#69
Great question. I can only loosely correlate that that is the issue for me. I also hear people who are on the OA Podcasts say similar things. That they can eat any food as a binge item ,and that seems to be me
Off signals, satiety? Maybe 30% of the time. There’s almost no off switch or satiety. Sometimes there is and I think my lucky stars for that I never know from one day to the next
I get the best hunger signals possible on the LCHF or a keto approach. But I still can over eat fat and I can still over eat protein.
Over intake will show up n my body. That’s not uncommon for people who have food addiction I just have to accept it and weigh out my food.
I still to this day get called names like weird or broken or orthorexia, but this is truly the most normal I’ve ever felt and it explains why I couldn’t stop eating when I was six years old
So yeah that Extra ghrelin thing;it’s a hormone and I think I have hormone issues. It’s certainly not for lack of trying. Everyone is different but I’ll bet that a lot of people fall into my boat.
Your body will give you feedback.
KCKO.
brownfat
(Todd Allen)
#70
jellybelly sounds far too much like Martin_Arnold. I’m surprised so many people are expending more effort giving the same advice to the same questions only to get the same responses.
richard
(Richard Morris)
#71
It’s possible. Protein is apparently half of the satiation signal (adequate raw materials for lean mass maintenance) and energy is the other half (adequate energy for TDEE). I suspect each of us has unique ratios in how much each influences satiety.
My LBM is 80.38kg according to my last DEXA scan.
It wasn’t easy to get down to the Aussie NRV for 2 months, which was 67g/day for me. As far as lean mass goes, my bookend DEXA scans showed that for me (and me only) that was adequate to not lose lean mass.
What was interesting was on days where I was slightly short on my protein target (roughly 62g) I experienced the next day significant cravings for umami flavoured food (seaweed, vegemite, beef, etc) which I take to be a specific hunger signal for protein. I have never experienced that before so I assume my protein intake was always more than sufficient to not require that signal.
I have since reverted to roughly 80-100g a day because I like protein, but most importantly after 2 months of tracking I wanted to “lazy keto” for a bit and around 90g is where I naturally fall.
Still the data I showed doesn’t mean that YOU personally need to eat that low an amount of protein. I’m just showing the basis for the argument of what the minimum requirement is to not scavenge lean mass, and above that you are just using protein for calories.
If you are losing weight eating 120-130g of protein (and you want to lose weight) - that’s awesome. If you aren’t then try changing that. The minimum I would consider changing that to given the above and your LBM range is 55g/day (65kg * 0.84g/kg).
You could also try eating more protein - there are FaceBook keto groups who report success eating at over 4g/kg LBM. There are body builders who swear they compete better around 2-2.5g/kg LBM. As far as I can tell there have been no reputable studies that have shown that over 1.4g/kg LBM has benefit, and I have seen one that found that 1.8g/kg LBM gave no benefit to muscle protein synthesis over 0.85g/kg ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27258300 ).
jellybelly
#74
Thanks. I don’t currently exercise (maybe the odd half hour walk). I was hoping to lose more weight first, and I’m concerned having read some stuff that without carbs you struggle when exercising. I’ve no idea how true that is.
If my body’s signals are out of whack then I’m not sure how I can tell how much I need.
Does Apple Cider vinegar help lower insulin? I’ve heard that it can.
I’m concerned that if I lower my carb intake further then I will deprive myself of nutrients and vitamins. I calculate that I’m eating around 5 net carbs a day.
gardengirlkp
(Karen Parrott)
#76
Not right now , as far as I know. As we go in the next 5-10 years, with personalized medicine, maybe.
Keep going and you’ll sort it all out.
LindaA
(Linda)
#77
I eat minimal carbs (green vegetables only, no sugars, grains or legumes), approximately 60g protein per day and fat to satiety. I am at my goal weight of 60kg (57yo post menopausal woman) and I regularly skip breakfast and lunch (roughly 3 days week) or eat breakfast and dinner only.
I walk 20 - 25km per day, every day and have been building up to this from the day I started Keto. I never feel like I struggle for energy so not sure how true that is. I just drink plenty of water whilst I’m out and about and make sure I have enough salt.
jellybelly
#78
Can i ask how much fat you eat per day and how you source it?
What about magnesium and potassium supplements?
Kyz
#79
Here is a sample day for me. I don’t track daily anymore. LC Mac Sauce is mayo, reduced sugar ketchup, mustard, and dill relish. PB fat bombs are peanut butter, coconut oil, and pecans.
I probably ate a bit too much nuts on this day, but I’m not as concerned about pecans personally.
I take potassium and magnesium supplements (along with some others). I also have tried Brenda’s ketoaid recipe, although I prefer to add the lite salt to my food and just the magnesium citrate to my water. I also soak in Epsom salts occasionally. I’m way past the “restless legs” from the beginning.