No one wants to hear it

(Bob M) #133

Well, I didn’t have the guts or the time to do this. My cardiologist has so few minutes with me, that I can’t tell them the issues I’m having let alone talk to them about keto.

I have idiopathic (we have no idea what caused this) dilated (your heart is getting bigger) cardiomyopathy (something’s wrong with your heart). I have been experiencing low blood pressure (<100 systolic, which is low for me), dizziness at times, and what I perceive to be slow heart rate. So, those took priority for the 10 minutes I was in the office.

I used the Dave Feldman cholesterol drop protocol and got my LDL down to 106. The cardiologist was happy about that, but then pulled up an old (5 years?) reading where my LDL was 152. I had to tell him that was because that was after 4.5 days fasting, which was true. Fasting that long causes “bad” things to happen for me, TC, LDL, trigs all go up, HDL goes down. I did not know this at the time (way before Dave Feldman), so to prove what happened, I did another test after 12 hours then after 4.5 days of fasting, and saw dramatic differences (again, before Feldman helped to explain this). The cardiologist does not have this data, though. He thought I was crazy for fasting that long.

I didn’t have the heart to then say, “Ha! You think that’s crazy, I fasted 4.5 days, then ate as much saturated fat as I could for three days, then took the blood test that caused LDL to be 101. Oh, by the way, I’ve been on a low carb/keto diet since 1/1/14. Oh, and I didn’t eat at all Monday, worked out Tuesday morning without eating, ate two meals Tuesday, ate one meal yesterday…”

He is convinced that the drugs I’m taking have helped repair my heart. I’m less convinced. There is a high correlation between insulin resistance and what I have. There is also a benefit to adding ketones for heart failure. I think my reversal of insulin resistance via diet and fasting is at least as important and perhaps more important than drugs.

This is the cardiologist who refused to authorize a CAC scan for me. He told me this is because my LDL is low, thus a CAC isn’t useful, apparently believing that high LDL = high values on a CAC scan, which I think is unsupported by scientific evidence. Unfortunately, I’m not the person to be the black swan for this, as my LDL is (assuming I don’t fast a lot) “low”.

I found a place that did not require a doctor’s prescription and got a CAC scan anyway. Score was zero. (And, I have very high Lp(a) and likely have had this my entire life, though I only knew about it when I began paying for fancier blood tests myself.) I’ll get another scan sometime in the future, to track what’s happening.

The good news is that I’m officially just “overweight” based on BMI. And based on my pants and the way I look and feel, I’ve gained muscle mass too, so I’m probably much better than the scale shows. I’ll know during my next DEXA scan.

('Jackie P') #134

I recently had my appraisal at work, I had had 2 days sick over the year, the previous year I had had about 21 days, I was just feeling crap!
I was asked what had changed, I said “I changed my diet, lost weight and got fitter”
My manager said "is that just from that keto thing? Blimey ".

(Susan) #135

Wow, Bob, you have certainly have had great results with Keto, and it is certainly great for all your health issues as well. This is fabulous =).

(Patrick L Anderson) #136

I spend far less simply because I stopped eating out 4 or 5 times a week.

(hottie turned hag) #137

Preach, sista!

(traci simpson) #138

Since it’s just me, I spend $149 on grass fed grass finished butch box meat which lasts about 6-8 weeks. It takes much longer for me to eat all my eggs, and veggies etc. so yes I think I’m spending less money on groceries and get to sleep in about 30 minutes longer because I don’t have to make breakfast.

(Will knit for bacon. ) #139

“I could never give up pasta!”

“I thought that too, and then I realized the pasta is just the delivery system for the sauce, cheese, and meatballs. And now I can eat more of them because I’m not filling up on noodles!”

(Shane) #140

Pasta was the first thing I gave up. Before finding out keto was a thing. It’s just bland bulk calories for people that can’t afford real food.
Even before then, one of my favourite meals to cook was spag bol made entirely from my garden plus beef mince and stinky cheese. I used spaghetti squash instead of pasta.
My doctor was impressed with what I used to eat. Didn’t seem to care that it was killing me.

(Parker the crazy crone lady) #141

Oh, I like this. I do something similar. Manipulative, but in a kind way, and for a good cause.

(Parker the crazy crone lady) #142

I am finding that my food expenses are nearly the same for my previous, healthier version of the SAD woe and my new, Keto woe. Thank goodness, as I’m on a limited income, and was worried.

(Ellenor Bjornsdottir (spare me thy resistant starch spiel)) #143

Nothing about the heart can be appraised by the status of the lipid and cholesterol transport system.

(Marianne) #144

I agree! My husband and I have been out to eat since I started this (2/19/19), except for breakfast, and it’s out of preference, not restriction. We prefer what we make at home to what we get out.

(Marianne) #145

Totally agree.


Along that thinking path with the heart and fatty acids (part of what is transported in the lipid transport system) though…
Unlike skeletal muscle, heart muscle functions almost exclusively aerobically, as evidenced by the density of mitochondria in heart muscle. Moreover, the heart has virtually no glycogen reserves. Fatty acids are the heart’s main source of fuel, although ketone bodies as well as lactate can serve as fuel for heart muscle. In fact, heart muscle consumes acetoacetate in preference to glucose.


My mum is getting older. She has type 2 diabetes. She uses insulin and with her brain fog just seems to make up the dose at each meal based on a blood glucose reading. I’m pretty sure her diabetes doctor hadn’t taught her about insulin dosing based on blood glucose readings. My understanding is that they fix the insulin dose and specify the carbohydrate load in the meal to match the insulin.

I almost said to follow the diabetes doctor’s advice. But that is knowing that advice is wrong. So I stopped and thought about it. This method my mum has made up to dose insulin with a blood glucose reading taken before her habitual 3 meals a day might actually be better. At least she can see her high blood glucose after having cake with her afternoon milky coffee, and make some acknowledgement noises that one day soon she will have to stop the cake and coffee. But she won’t even try coffee with cream because that is unhealthy, whereas a whole cup of coffee flavoured low fat milk is not.

She says she can’t eat the way I eat because it is unhealthy and that I am overweight. Which I am, but I used to be 40kg more overweight. And she has a point there. Even though I am healthier, I don’t look “healthy”. So giving any comments or advice on dietary lifestyle is not accessible to me in society until I look normal. Meanwhile, I witness my mum’s slow motion sugary suicide.

(Ellenor Bjornsdottir (spare me thy resistant starch spiel)) #148

Could you please ask Mamma Bear if she’ll read something a stranger wrote on a forum you happen to use?

"Dear Franko’s mum, you have a point that he’s still fat. However, he was worse, even fatter and likely with poorer glycaemic control before he began this weird high fat lifestyle.

The worst thing that could happen is that you would need to reduce your insulin (if you use a basal dose) so that you didn’t get hypos. You see, your body is stretched to the maximum producing megatonnes of insulin, and now you’re also injecting it. You’re not exactly a type 1 diabetic, unless you’re in end-stage disease or something - you have plenty of insulin floating about in your circulation. Too much, in fact.

Low fat milk and cake requires more insulin to process than does clotted cream spread on a steak, or coffee with cream added, and your body has become resistant because it’s produced too much of this stuff for too long and, whether fat or thin, you’ve overstretched every adipocyte in your body. It’s this insulin resistance, and postprandial hyperglycemia, that truly drives most of the heart disease in the world, not anything about cholesterol (I’ll provide sources that can explain the mechanisms if you are smart enough to hold up a “citation needed” sign).

You can still have your coffee, but use full-fat cream and a homeopathic dose of any artificial sweetener you like instead of skimmed milk, and have a steak smeared with clotted cream, or a cheesecake with an almond crumb, sweetened with Truvia or Splenda instead of sugar, instead of a cake. As I see it, meat, fish, eggs, avocado and cheese can’t hurt you as much as breads, cakes, potatoes, rice, avalanches of carrots, peas, sweetcorn, skimmed milk (which is basically just lactose, casein and water - look at the carbohydrate (turns into glucose) section on a bottle of skimmed milk if you dare!). Meat, fish, eggs, hard cheese, leafy greens (if you like), avocados (also optional), a piece of lemon or equivalent amount of Truvia-sweetened dilute lemon juice (optional if you have a handful of greens), and the odd half a carrot altogether don’t contain nearly as much sugar and starch as the things we are told to base our diets on: bread, cakes, potatoes, rice, avalanches of carrots, peas, sweetcorn, skimmed milk, and all the “healthy whole grains” (yes, all that stuff breaks down into sugar). The running theme here seems to be: try what you haven’t tried yet, even if the role model in your life of it isn’t the shining pillar of health (he’s a lot better than he was!), because it appears that nothing else has worked.

If you start following my advice I highly recommend cutting some units off of your basal insulin dosage (if you use basal insulin) to prevent hypoglycemia, co-ordinating with your doctors if they are going to be supportive of low carb (call it the Atkins or Banting diet because the word ‘keto’ strikes terror into diabetes educators), and testing your blood sugar far more often. Having a low one day means you need to cut some amount off your insulin dose. If you have the money, and it’s available where you live, consider getting a FreeStyle Libre, which will show you a graph of bodily glucose extrapolated as a blood number, not just a discrete blood number.

Sincerely, an internet stranger who lost ~90lb (~6 stone 6 pound; 40 kilogram) and completely turned her mood disorder around on the same sort of eating plan FrankoBear is on.

PS: Composite second hand anecdote from farms via some unusual diabetes educators: What do they feed the pigs in America to make them fat for the slaughter? Skimmed milk and corn scrap. The idea is to make the pigs just a tiny bit prediabetic - keep them hungry while they keep gaining weight. Very little fat - they’ll eat less of this swill if the farmer leaves the milk fat on the milk, and the pigs’ blood sugar won’t go as high either. Your metabolism is similar. For humans just as for pigs, a higher fat feed makes for a leaner, less hungry and less diabetic person (assuming the fat isn’t vegetable oils) as your son Frank has so aptly demonstrated by going from more severely to less severely fat on a bunch of full-fat cream and meat. It’s not linear dose-response though - if you go high-fat but still keep the flour cake instead of changing it for Truvia or Splenda-sweetened cheesecake, you’ll probably go from bad to worse."

Clotted cream recipe is to bake some full-fat cream at 87°C/200ish°F for the better part of a whole waking day.

The making up an insulin dose with the glucose in the blood and in the meal is something type 1 diabetics do, but they also have to bear in mind protein. She’s obviously still switched on enough to realise that flexible bolus dosing is probably better for glycemic control than fixed dosing (conventional insulin therapy).


Thanks Ellenor. I’ll give it a go.

Otherwise, like a horror movie script, I was just going to watch her keep poisoning herself until she got so incapacitated that she has to move in with me and I become her carer, for that interim before she goes into an old people’s home to die. And at that stage, which is probably too late, I get a chance to inflict a version of low carb WOE on her. It feels so traitorous.

(Ellenor Bjornsdottir (spare me thy resistant starch spiel)) #150

Please don’t speak about her so negatively on a forum she might end up reading when she sees the light.

(mole person) #151

I have no trouble keeping food costs as low as pre keto and not only am I on carnivore but I never even have ground beef.

I just shop sales and meats reduced for quick sales. Even in my small town the three good sized supermarkets provide enough choice for me to almost always be buying either ribeye, striploin, beef ribs, fatty beef roasts, or lamb knocked down 50-75%. On the rare occasions that I don’t I will find pork or chicken.

Pretty much the only thing that I pay full price for is my calf liver. I eat it regularly and it’s too rare a product to be marked down much, also I just like it better fresher.

Finally I also eat a ton of beef fat and I’ve found a butcher who’s giving it to me free since it’s normally waste. I think I’m eating more than a kilo of pure added fat a week.

My daily food costs are always well under $10 Canadian and usually less than $5. Yesterday it was $2.50.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #152