No! Grass fed is NOT a keto rule


Well said!


No, that’s the point. They were still showing high levels of inflammation on a LCHF diet & fasting regimen. When they switched to “clean keto” they saw improvements in those markers. Similar findings are plentiful.

Agreed, which is why when big agriculture tells us something is perfectly safe we should probably follow the money. I don’t know of a comprehensive clinical trial which “proves” either of our points, but I do know that ignoring or dismissing clinical observations as merely “anecdotal” and therefore false is unwise.

“What gets us into trouble is not what we don’t know. It’s what we know for sure that just ain’t so.”

(Ken) #126

Ah, then you would consider my experience of eliminating inflammation while eating feedlot beef to be valid as well. If you follow your own criteria.

If “findings are plentiful” no doubt you’ll be able to provide some sources.

I’m well aware of the Dogma. I’ve been following it for nearly two decades now.


Surely you mean “reducing”. Without you doing some N=1 and some testing I guess you’ll never know how low the inflammation can go. And since gut health is still relatively uncharted territory there’s a good chance we’ll both be dead by the time the science is in.


No you’re not. I taste a difference, but not enough to justify the cost of it. Kirkland is all I usually buy now as it’s most cost effective for us.

In fact, everyone talks about saving money on keto due to reduced hunger and omad and yada yada…but I find myself spending more each week. The only reduction I’ve seen to my wallet comes from less eating out…

(Chris) #129

I think the inflammation statement was bit much though, inflammation is a natural process the body needs to go through sometimes. Excess inflammation, especially in regards to high amounts of bad foods like veg oils, is bad. But you do need some, sometimes, to fight off far worse things.

(CJ Julian) #130

Yes, not EVERYONE can afford grass-fed/pasture raised meats BUT if you can, you should. Is it not worth your health to eat the best you can regardless? As you become more keto adapted, you eat less which makes it cost about the same eating the good stuff as it did when you ate way more of the not-so-good stuff

(Jay AM) #131

Some of us eat less, some of us don’t even with fasting. I can definitely afford grass fed, pastured, etc. Finding a brand I trust is a nightmare in my unusual living situation. While I can judge what’s in someone’s cart (and, I do sometimes feel bad for people loading up on all the low fat and carbs.) I can’t judge their lives and priorities, nor would I waste my time doing so. If they arent comfortable buying pastured, humane, grass fed, organic for whatever reasons, that’s up to them.

(joseph) #132


(Jeannie Oliver) #134

Living in cow country here I can assure you animals are not fed grains their whole lives. Once a calf is weaned, it lives on grass until it is about 16 to 18 months old, then it is grain fed for 6 to 8 weeks before it is sold for slaughter.

(Jeannie Oliver) #135

I live in the middle of a state that is turning into a desert and I have lived long enough to see the effects of desertification with my own eyes. It grieves me to think of my home turning into a dust bowl–again–and to think that we are passing this legacy to our grandchildren.

Nonetheless, I believe it is hubris to think that we already know all we need to know to feed the world’s populations and to serve as good stewards of our lands. If you are also concerned about maintaining a sustainable food supply for all nations, watch this:

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #136

Your bias is showing, friend.

If you might want to put down the Mercola and pick up some Ballerstadt, to understand where the Ruminati are coming from.

Even the “grain fed” feed lot beef, is largely grass fed until finishing. So, in reality, if we differentiate between grasses and grains (different stages and portions of the same thing, really), even the grain fed feed lot cows are not eating corn (gmo or otherwise, as if that makes a difference), for months on end…


Both men have an agenda, to think otherwise would be foolish. But that being said I have a lot of respect for Ballerstedt and what he represents. He presents a solution to a growing problem.

As for Mercola, I get the contempt. But let’s not pretend he’s the only one advocating for the consumption of “properly raised animals”. Agree or disagree, there are plenty of folks who don’t have a dog in the fight who advocate the same.

With ruminants, I don’t think it matters a ton. I definitely think there is a difference but how much it matters is obviously debatable. I notice a way bigger difference with eggs for example. And dairy. But at the end of the day the cheapest animal products are light years ahead of what would be consumed on a SAD diet.


Err… maybe it is out-of-topic, but I am then curious.

Is SPAM good then?

Well, considering that it has about 0.something grams of carb per 100 gram, it shouldn’t be too bad to consume it as a food, right?

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #139

It’s a decent food from a macro perspective.
If you consider the food quality piece as secondary, then it’s fine. If you consider the food quality piece as part of the primary effects, then it’s suboptimal.

Everyone runs this experience a bit different, and everyone gets different value from it. On my first run through, I made modest improvements to food quality and had great results. They are clearly not that central to success in weight loss.


What’s the verdict on vitamin K2? I’ve been studying Weston A. Price’s work over the last few years and he always made a point to emphasize grassfed meat and butter.


I have a history of Vit D deficiency.
My family have a history of heart attacks.

K2 helps to ensure that calcium is deposited where it needs to go, rather than to line the arteries and increase risk of heart attack, and it enables the body to make good use of my Vit D3 supplements.

Even with excellent high quality butter and various deliciously stinky cheeses I do not believe my diet contains enough Vit K2. So I supplement, and expect to do so for life.

(Ken) #143

The Desertification point is spot on. Grasslands do best when they are grazed and periodically burned. It vastly improves their animal carrying capacity and productivity. Same concept for forests, if you’re not allowing them to be burned down by forest fires, they should be logged when mature.


I just did a Google image search for natto…thank you for that haha. That ain’t gonna happen. But I do like gouda so there’s that I guess although the quality of the milk used is a factor there too it seems.

(Diane) #145

I have to say that I visit these forums almost daily. Since I’m a later addition to this group, I have a huge backlog of topics and posts to read. Pretty much everyday I read one of your posts that makes me laugh out loud! Thanks!!