Nicotine aids lipolysis. What to do when you quit nicotine?

health

(Mark Rhodes) #21

Oh I am definitely on the side of cessation. I have been keto Since April 1 2017. I knew about nicotine related weight gain but rather naively I thought, eh fuck it, keto will solve that too. Well shit, it didn’t. Goddamn you keto.

I wanted to let things settle down and let my body normalize without panicking. Ya know KCKO. That time now is drawing to a close. Fasting, strict measured keto and perhaps some calorie manipulation - I average about 2600-2900 a day and lift weights 4 days a week with a physical job.

What I am having difficulty understanding is why my ketones dropped the way they have? Before I quit my readings never were below .6 mmol and regularly 1.0 and higher. Since July 23 to the day my βHB can be .1-.5 mmol. What is driving this mechanism? I know not to be worried about ketone levels but this is curiosity.

Of course I will keep updates to this thread. Over the last 18 months there has been very little talk of nicotine and I happen to know there are a lot of us out there.

@gdsorenson I think you have done wonderful!! It is encouraging to know that you can break through.


(CharleyD) #22

This is the truth. I quit a 24 year can-a-day habit after 1.5 years keto.

It still feels fresh, (last real tobacco was on May 15th, 2018), and I’ve asked for something to help with the ‘blues’ and my neuro was happy to provide venlafaxine. Just so happens that that SNRI in particular I’m a hyper-responder to according to my SNPs and it is working wonders. Other SNPs I have tell me that wellbutrin and chantix would not be effective for this.

Just saying for others else out there, if you’re thinking about kicking a long term habit, it may behoove you to consider that there are these biochem considerations, but also a distinct possibility of a psychological impact. And to not be afraid to ask for help to remedy it.


(Mark Rhodes) #23

wow. hadn’t even considered psychological issues. I’ve been in AA for 29 years and nicotine is the drug of choice at AA meetings :roll_eyes:. I’m glad Charley you asked for help. Fortunately I have had NONE of the complications of quitting. I had quit for 13 years prior. Due to some health issues and disabilities, all gone now, I picked up a cigarette and eventually back to the chew. I tried quitting like 6 times prior to this one. This one I didn’t think about it other than, “eh, maybe I won’t chew today” and that turned into a second day and a third. After a week stubbornness kicked in and I didn’t want to have to do a first week again so I kept going and ignored my shirts getting tighter and the scale going up, eventually being confirmed by Dexascan.


(CharleyD) #24

Yeah I was hoping for an easy transition away, but it was not meant to be.

Within a matter of days all the symptoms of a depression settled in. Wanting more and more sleep after getting nearly 10-12 hours, libido was shot, being distant from family, work performance slipping, craving sweets, none of the usual keto-IF energy.

Mrs Dipper can put up with a lot but when it looks like I’m putting our livelihood at risk, she’s willing to smack me on the head and tell me to do something about it.


#25

Stop smoking and Just Vape.


#26

Thanks for sharing Charley. I appreciate hearing your experience.


(Mark Rhodes) #27

That’s a good woman there. My Mrs. tolerates quite a bit of craziness from me as well. She is great at distinguishing eccentric from not well.


(#inforthelonghaul, KCKO, KCFO) #28

Maybe you are now more efficient at using the ketones, they are not being extracted from your body, your body is using them.

Quiting tobacco is a good health move. Good for you stopping using it.

Not everyone gains when they stop smoking. That is not true. My husband had been a smoker (pack a day) for 25 yrs. when he quit. He did not gain nor lose, he stayed the same. So gaining is not necessarily going to happen. If it does, just eat strict keto and let the body repair itself and wait for the weight loss to come


(Krista) #29

I too am a smoker and I found this thread illuminating! I know that quitting is going to be a big bonus in the health dept, but I’m not sure if i’m ready yet. The impending weight gain is what’s holding me back. I’ve worked really hard at getting where i am, and any gain would be a big mental setback. I’m a firm believer in KCKO, however i may need someone to take my scale (who I’ve named Norman) away for a couple of months when I do decided to quit, just for my own mental health.


(Mark Rhodes) #30

The timing of that drop coincides to the day of the nicotine cessation. Sure it is only correlation but a striking one.
I should also add that my BRace (ketonix) also dropped from mid 60 PPM to as low as 20 PPM on a regular basis.

This is why I wondered initially if Nicotine-Derived Nitrosamine Ketone (NNK) acts as an exogenous ketone and therefore my ketones never were as high as my previous year and a half of measurements led me to believe.


(Tony Battelle) #31

Thanks for the great adverts. here’s a sugar one for kicks

and giggles.


(Nimitta) #32

Consider choline + carnitine supplements. I’m not sure if this is the reason, or one of the reasons, but choline is made into acetylcholine in the nervous system. Acetylcholine acts at nicotinic receptors and reduces appetite. Or it may be a direct biochemical effect on lipolysis, or both. Either way, it may offset the lack of nicotine.


(Mark Rhodes) #33

Thank you for this. From here I have been able to work out some other fringe observations about mood, memory and problem solving. Seems the acetylcholine neurotransmitter has quite a bit to do with this as well as regulating other hormones including androgens. Androgens besides creating a sex drive also help regulate LBM which has dropped by a few pounds as I gained fat. WOWSA.


(Donna) #34

Fascinating forum topic and your input interests on a personal level. What would be your thoughts/take on taking nicotine lozenges for the mental acuity/clarity/Alzeimer protection/insulin sensitivity benefits? If not taken in tobacco form…could it be beneficial and compatible with a ketogenic diet? I ask because I have been taking up to nine of the 4mg “mini-mints”- NiQuitin…daily…for the past four years…and am terrified that giving them up (none for the past few days) will tank my metabolism and mental sharpness!

Any thoughts would be incredibly appreciated!


(Todd Allen) #35

The science suggests there are positive aspects to moderate nicotine use but I’d place more weight on your own personal reaction/experience than on the science. Control studies indicating positive effects are on mice and it may not work the same in people. The studies on people are epidemiological which are prone to error. Although trying to personally sort out positive impacts from ones due to dependence/addiction will probably be challenging. I suppose the thing to watch out for is escalating need for larger amounts.


(Mark Rhodes) #36

I think long term nicotine use is detrimental. We came for the weight loss we stayed for the health benefits. Not just T2D benefits but all of them is my motto these days. There is a push pull between nicotine and insulin sensitivity. Not every cell becomes insulin sensitive with the use of nicotine and nicotine can limit other hormonal responses and impact the endocrine system.

Any clarity issues I had seem to be being addressed after the initial 10 week phase through fasting and good keto. Started using some keto treats again and that has been helpful. I test every morning to create a baseline to see if treats begin to lower my baseline…if they do, I back off a couple days. As to Alzheimer’s, I am not qualified to speak to this but I would recommend Amy Berger.


(Donna) #37

Thank you Todd for your input…I indeed WAS ramping up my intake of 4mg ‘mints’ to the tune of nine per day…and do believe it was getting out of hand from an addiction and budgetary perspective! The ‘fake’ sugar involved…acfultame potassique (K) …spelling gone very wrong!..can not be good for the gut biome or metabolism either I imagine.


(Donna) #38

Bonsoir Mr. Rhodes…I appreciate your sharing of information regarding nicotine on the endocrine system and hormonal responses possibly involved. Thanks too for the direction toward Amy Berger and her informative blog…Mille merci from across the pond in France!


(Mark Rhodes) #39

Merci. Aside from Nicotine you might be interested in this concerning the regulation of glucose intake and gut biome


(Donna) #40

Merci encore …very generous of you to share the Medscape article on glucose and intake and the gut biome…interesting read…was amazed to see how recent the report was…and it seems to truly discredit sugar substitutes as innocuous…Much gratitude for your kindness!