Phew, it’s hot. But I have physiotherapy for surfing rehab in just over an hour’s time. I don’t want to go. And that’s why I will. Then I’ll mulch a tree (ninja gardening in town), and pick up some coffee.

I broke that fast like a leg on an 80 year old snow skier. Just plain old bacon, 4 rashers middle cut, and eggs, 3 pasture fed chicken eggs with salt. 2 coffees a few hours apart. Last night was lamb chops and 4 small beef sausages. I think I’ll continue to avoid sausages. These were left over from summer holidaying visitors. I’m going to drink a hot beef bone broth despite it being a hot summer day. It’s hovering just under and over 90F.

Fasting but after one coffee blood glucose= 6.1mmol/l (110mg/dl) with blood ketones of 0.2mmol/l.

So, I’m back at that higher fasting blood glucose zone again. At least this time, with the help of Linda @Azi, I can recognise a key cause as eating too much, even though eating on plan. There is a better optimum zone where there is no hunger, but the volume of food is not so high. Food nutrient density also comes into play where eggs and ruminant meat hold hunger better than pork, chicken, and seafood. The latter 3 ZC foods I see as accompaniments these days rather than meal foundations. Cream based dairy is another tasty ZC supplement that is either helping the plan or creating its own small world of metabolic and psychological havoc. So, the plan is to adjust and eat a bit less. @Fangs this is not restriction, it’s observation.

There endeth today’s brain fallout.

This is a local, native jewel beetle I found in the garden. I’m not eating insects.

(Linda ) #42

Yeah for dropping your bs and raising your ketones try smaller meals doesn’t matter even if its 3 or 4 times pull back on protein but make it fatty meat not lean … but I also find testing your last meal at like 5pm latest, makes a huge difference on bs it doesn’t seem to affect my ketones but it raises bg if I eat later into the evening.


It’s always so interesting to me how different people are :slight_smile:
I have read an article about satiating items and yep, they were waaaaaaay off in my case.
Pork is definitely better for my satiation than eggs (my top satiating item on vegetarian keto so it’s not so bad already), chicken is useless alone, probably seafood too…
Of course, the fattiness of pork matters, pork shoulder satiates me less than pork chuck, at least I overeat it despite the way less joy from it. Lean pork is great too but I shouldn’t forget about fat…
Ruminant meat is great indeed, it’s possible it’s better than even pork but I rarely could try it. Doesn’t matter, I remember how satiating it is (though I am not the same all the time…), I just need pork-based OMAD days to compare.

Maybe soon. Today is rabbit stew day! (And some pork will be eaten as well, of course. I don’t think I ever want to skip pork. It’s a perfect item for me, at least the fattiness being in the right range or balanced out with something else but that needs focus to do it just right and I just wanna chill.)

My satiation will be quite fine if I just go back to my late first meal… Not like I can complain now. I ate 3.5 meals yesterday and it was normal, guesstimation says the usual, 1800-something kcal, 130g protein and fat. I don’t know how reliable it is, I ate food not measured and some watery fat tissue were consumed (well-cooked smoked pork hock, Alvaro ate the meat and left lots of yummy fat, I can’t eat it alone but I had lean pork with it, perfect)… But I did my best to guess and the protein is probably close.
I wonder if I just stop tracking for a while. Rabbit is complicated too as it has bones… But I am too curious as usual.

Shiny beetle! I love those, we have a lot in the forests nearby :slight_smile: They seem almost black with lots of nice blue or green shine but very pretty.

I would eat the right insects but I mentioned my cricket eating desire a few times already here :wink:


you are right. many women fall into your height range easily :slight_smile: but you still got height. one could always be alot shorter and then have trouble reaching even higher cabinets in your home, lol.

@Karen18, your wings always look so yum in your pics K!

Hey are you doing any surfing at all just yet? goofing in the waves with Billie watching :partying_face:

I get it. Agree with you definitely! You are not ‘new’ now in any way. You are a carnivore with time under their belt. When one has time on this lifestyle, and is established and content and firm on the plan, you can do observations on yourself. Small doses. Any bigger radical changes can ‘monkey ya up’ quickly…so only thing I say on this, do things slow and easy. We find very good security and satiaty on our lifestyle but if we do it to ourselves we can rock that boat very quickly but I know you won’t do that :100:

I guess I am so long on plan I found me ya know. In that I have fatty eating days and then my appetite calls for leaner eating days and I just float between the 2 easily if I just follow what the body wants at all times. It keeps me from messing me up HA and believe me, I can do just that to myself.

be interesting to see how it goes down for ya!!

Azi is doing very well too on changes so yea, you wanna try you try. Nothing ever wrong with that when a longer term carnivore wants to see if some small changes matter.

------------------HUBBY HAPPY, truck fixed. only $100. would you believe the extended warranty actually covered something :sunny: so instead of $800 only 100 and I am super fine with that

it is 4:30am woke up to doggie scratching at door to go out. wow on the fog outside. very thick, very dampy and wet chilly icky. can’t wait for that to burn off. should be sun today. we all might head over to a mall outlet for a bit of walk/shop. yea not my style but they like it. we shall see what the day brings at the beach.

got sausage and leftover pork to eat.

I am pretty sure being last day here and leave tomorrow to home hubby will want to eat out tonight so food up for grabs later. whatever goes down, zc all the way baby :100:


When I cut off fat chunks from the rabbit and fried them, I knew the already problematic tracking will come to an end for a while :smiley: So I just eat now.

I got hungry after 1pm again… Sigh. Problem is that the rabbit was far from getting ready and I just had a little this and that (and a ton of pork chuck roast in the fridge but my mind went there too late and anyway I had my plans)… I got bored of my lean pork quickly despite I ate it with the tasty smoked pork hock fat. I ate eggs, of course, sponge cakes, yogurt (I want to try myself to eat just a little for a creamy dessert but now I just used it as food. still in moderation but not as much as I could), egg milk… Eventually the rabbit got ready (almost, we cooked it more. using a pressure cooker has disadvantages, we don’t know what happens inside), Alvaro got hurt when I told him the stew had way too much water (he is a sensitive one but it had way too much water so he should use less next time. he refuses to measure it so I will pour in the water next time… sigh) and after I ate a tiny front leg, we cooked it more, without the lid, raising the humidity too much (it’s a washing day too) but it’s not something some airing can’t help with. But I want to eat rabbit with Alvaro for dinner so I just ate more leftover lean, a bit dry pork with yummy fat. Just because I didn’t want to eat anything, I could. And I was annoyingly hungry.

Yeah I should eat only if I have plenty of something I gladly eat galore. Fresh pork roast is a perfect example, I can make a meal of it :slight_smile: Unless it’s way too lean but even this fresh ham I usually buy had fat layers and juiciness first. The old, leanest pieces are less great even for hungry me. I often make something with it but now I just want to eat it. It’s doable just not as smooth as some more tempting item.

So I had some boredom but nothing I couldn’t handle. I really have plenty of options (I forgot about some of them though), I just don’t want to cook or open something for “emergency” or a later plan when I already ate a bunch of stuff and just want to chill without hunger…

Now I am fine, looking forward to my rabbit based dinner soon :slight_smile:

But in my problematic unsatisfied state I ended up drinking a little coffee… I don’t want to try hard now. I go back to avoiding it and I don’t touch it until my first meal now but I needed this tiny different something.

The cats are all well-fed and wanting food all the time. I told Pie she is so lucky I control her food, she would get fat! She is a lovely one super good at asking so she does get her extra bites, even some lean pork from mine :slight_smile: And I am very attached to my meat. Even to these lean dry ones but I only gave me a bit and she is a great cat. And a bad one too but cats do their things (like licking plates and making noise. Pie loves the latter very much and she realized walking through all over Alvaro’s microprocessors is nice for her. until Alvaro catches her and throws her out. but I let her in soon again so no big harm is done. it’s WINTER! and I want my cuddle partner with me). Pie is perfect for petting, cuddling as she loves it and seemingly never get bored of it (at least not earlier than me). The other two are different and they aren’t bad cat either, just not THAT human-loving one as Pie. Okay, Tofu is a tsundere, she is kind of bad and I have tiny injuries to prove it. Not like Pie wouldn’t put her tiny sharp needle-like claws into my thigh… But even Tofu has no bad intentions so she never harms me over tiny scratches (sometimes some skin tears off, still heals in 3 days) and her bites are usually very fake and barely noticeable. I wouldn’t stand cats with ill will. Ours are just characters, drastically different from each others. And all is pettable if we know what we are doing :slight_smile:

Carnivore New Challenge starting for new year....and
(Karen) #46

Up at 8am with my revised alarm call!

Meds, BP and into lounge with coofee and books. Raining outside unfortunately but mild which is a shame as it would have been nice to sit outside.

Did some of the jigsaw, no outer pieces missing thankfully. Chicken in the oven about 145pm and cooked for an hour, pork chops in to slow cooker and still on the go, must remember to turn it off before going to bed which wont be long now.
Chicken was lovely … just brushed some melted lard on the skin added seasoning… just s&p and i have been devouring the lot throughout the rest of the day!. Intermittent cheesey bits but not a lot.

Yes i ate the whole chicken… it wasnt a particularly big chick and i dont feel stuffed.

Drank a bovril stock cube and approx 5 or 6 small cups of hot water. That has been it apart from 2 black coffees this morning oh and my regular pint water with my meds.

Off to bed now me thinks.


I had dinner, more of the things I ate for lunch… And milky coffee. It seems when I experienced milk isn’t so good in coffee, that was for super weak coffees. I accidentally made a stronger one and it was horrible black (I used the more bitter one now too) and nice with milk. I didn’t want to open a box of cream (it makes all kind of coffee much better) as Alvaro can use up the milk way easier and in bigger amounts. I need him to help to consume the stuff, be it 1 liter of milk or 200-250ml cream, both are too much for me (I COULD consume any in no time but I don’t want/desire to and it’s far from ideal) and I need them to disappear quickly or else I will go back to my zillion coffees a day… I don’t want to but I know myself… Maybe I would only drink my zillion coffees with and after my first meal but that’s not good enough either.

And I got a bellyache in the evening, no idea why, I had more than minimal dairy but I often have more (from the same kinds I ate today) and nothing happens. Maybe it was something else, not food related (as no way the meat and egg did it and I ate a negligible amount of plant matter) but it’s odd. Oh well, it’s not too bad, I just very nearly never have bellyache, the few I have happens only when I very seriously overdo carbs (or just a bit but that is something supbar, it never happens with my own food at home)… And I am a curious person.

So, 2MAD, about 4 hour eating window, that’s good. I probably ate normal, I am super bad at guessing my macros but I ate lean meat and extra fat (maybe less protein than usual but definitely not too much food), some normal amount of eggs and some dairy and I feel satiated so my macros must be in their usual range I suppose. My body is very stubborn about its food but when it gets its usual, it quickly turns off its demands. There are exceptional days but they are rare. And carbs can’t interfere on carnivore as animal carbs simply don’t do that. Maybe in really huge amounts but I don’t consume them like that, it would be unnatural even for me. I love my dairy, sometimes not even in tiny amounts but it’s still not very much.

(Jules ) #48

24 min Parkrun, go you!!!


Lamb chops and pan-fried halloumi sheep’s milk cheese after a bare feet, t-shirt and board shorts, beach walk and sunset viewing last night. Warm evenings here. Long light. Bushfires in the inland forests. The smoke tints and taints the sky. It affects the flavour of the wine.


Bacon and eggs breakfast with coffee. Billie to the vet to remove a grass seed from her paw. Then it was time to hit the surf for a few hours. 33’C / 91F. There was only one other surfer at this spot, and a couple of swimmers. It’s right between two popular (too popular) swimming beaches, but is regarded as a hiking trail.

(Karen) #50

Beautiful photos pnce more @FrankoBear. Hope the forest fires dont become a real problem again.

Well i reset alarm for 7.30am and was up about 7.20. I had gone to bed earlier last night to accommodate the earlier setting. Meds, BP and then coffee in the lounge with my books till just after 9am. Then off to CrossFit … yep i got my ass in gear and got down that box! One of the guys said “Karen, i saw your name on the class list and thought flippin heck what a wod to cone back to as your first one!” Yep i had checked it out but thought i have gotta go and do that crazy stuff. All through the ergs when i was dying i kept telling myself when its over i will have enjoyed it!!! And i have to admit i did! Wierd lady i know! Lol

Returned home and got in the bath to dolly up for the Tea Dance this afternoon and had a very pleasant time. Dropped Raymond off at his place and when i got home i quickly seared off the pork chops i had cooked in the slow cooker yesterday. I have to admit i ate up like a ravenous piglet i was so hungry. First meal of the day at 4.45pm. Followed it with a bit of greek cheese and then i had a bovril drink and another drink but this time an Oxo stock cube in a cup of chicken stock i made from yesterdays chicken carcass. Very nice.

Nearly time for bed. 100 pushups and 50 each front and side raises complete.


I started with little meals but then I had a proper bigger one in the end. Rabbit stew, eggs, cheeses, leftover chicken liver and pork roast. And tiny extras but it wasn’t too bad, I just need to get stricter but I keep to my original “as strict as it’s comfortably possible”, that’s good enough for me, for now at least.

We still have rabbit but a pork slab is defrosting as a tiny front limb of a young rabbit is, like, nothing to me. I make mincemeat and fry some. I want to experiment with various spices in the near future. Or just add sour cream, who knows? And I will make a big scrambled eggs with bacon too.

Gloomy weather and when we went out, it started to rain… But I did 2 small walks with tiny running.

(Judy Thompson) #52

Goodness. Got to the end with time to spare! Not much to read today but most nights I read an hour on our thread with no time left to write.
I’ve had sore throat, swollen glands and cough the last couple days. Yesterday in Toastmasters a lady said her covid symptoms were the same so I got a test yesterday. Negative. I’m still brain dead but hoping by tomorrow afternoon I’ll be well enough to work.
We’ve spent the day in San Antonio, picked up instruments, shopped for a fridge and some boxes for music so I can finally unpack it.
Ended the day with a stop at BJ’s for their Thursday special which is beef tritip beef
. I’d rather not have rub on it - sometimes there isn’t any. Nonetheless very good. Sides to hubby. Had one bite of his Ghirardelli dark chocolate ice cream! Mmm.
Cookies are in a bag to take to church.

(Robin) #53

Feel better soon!


Delicious “monster steak”, as the butcher marketed it, for dinner last night. It was a rib cut. It was quite fresh in terms of steak and meat ageing. From the experience, I think I prefer fresher meat, rather than aged. Another butcher, in another town, lauds his minimum 21-day aged beef. I think that beef hanging and ageing was more common in the United Kingdom and Europe. @carnivoor2 Vic, or @Naghite Michael, or @Karen18 may know more? @VirginiaEdie Edith cautions against aged meat for histamine sensitive people.

This alleged monster steak probably had about 500g of edible meat and I enjoyed gnawing around the bone. It was easy to eat after a surfing session that involved a mid-summer’s day coastal track hike up and down a beach scarp carrying a malibu longboard surfboard. The day before I had been to physiotherapy surf rehab, which is mainly working on surfing muscles using Pilates reformer machines. So, even before setting out on the surf hike, I had delayed onset muscle soreness. The key difference between muscle soreness and polyarthritis joint pain is that muscle soreness is an inconvenience to work with, whereas joint pain can be debilitating and disabling.

Just on eating the monster steak and dietary intentions. In earlier posts I said I would be looking at reducing food volume intakes. But, I reckon @Fangs will love this, I ate what I felt was needed to satiety after a physically active day. That was about 1.1 lbs of beef with a sprinkle of sea salt falling from my fur.

Along with that monster steak I drank a lot of lightly salted rainwater to rehydrate, and added some pan-fried sheep’s milk halloumi. The standard dose of halloumi is about playing card size, 1 piece, cut about 6mm thick. I think Mrs Bear found a halloumi special at the market as there are two bricks of it in the fridge. Pan fried cheese doesn’t pop up much in other people’s chat. Is it not common?

This morning we have a mild weather change with a few more clouds in the sky after another nice sunset last night. Colourful skies are a benefit to good mental health. And it also means, by watching the sunset, I’m not watching the nightly news, which may have the opposite effect.


(Michael) #55

Sorry, no help on ageing beef here, I have not researched that at all. I will say though that I am eating a 17 oz sirloin while typing/reading, so we have that in common :slight_smile: I will be curious to see if others have more info on aged meats.


Are you ‘challenging’ yourself to eat that 17oz sirloin? Or is it a comfortable and satisfying meal?

My surf, steak, and sunset left me feeling generally satisfied with life.

I’m interested as I think some of us come to keto and carnivore with disordered eating, and loss of instinctive satiety. That makes it possible to overeat foods despite following a healthier and more nutritious way of eating.

I find it hard to shake the “finish what is on the plate” ethos promulgated by my parents who grew up as hungry children during World War 2, and after (with food supply restrictions into the 1950’s) in Germany.

I think @Azi Linda’s discoveries with eating smaller amounts while meaning nutritional needs, and eating timed more toward daylight hours are fascinating combined with the ZC menu.

(Michael) #57

I am doin OMAD so that was just my first plate. Yes, satisfying although not quite fatty enough. Making bacon now to get more fat tonight. In general I find I have never eaten more since going carnivore. I just love meat and cheese and eggs damnit.


All of the beef I buy from the butcher is aged. Some now also salt age instead of just dry age.

I have been experimenting with fat:protein ratio and the difference is clear in my GKI results.

Previously, I was:

  • loosely eating 2MAD in a 5-8 hour eating window (i.e. daylight eating)
  • having a 16-19 hour overnight fast (not forced fasting; I ate when hungry but I only ate full meals, no snacks)
  • eating any amount of carnivore (no dairy) food to satiety

I’d recommend anyone starting carnivore does this. I had great progress - muscle growth, fat loss, more energy, mood/hormones/sleep improvements.

On the downside, my fat loss did feel quite slow, but I had confounding factors with medication and I think my body needed time to repair and boost my metabolism after restriction. I did lose a decent amount of fat but for how dedicated I was, it would’ve been nice to have seen a bit more progress.

I became ill half a year ago. Of late, I’ve started to notice that whilst eating my usual plate of meat, I’d become exhausted part way through.

I recently started testing GKI. Blood glucose was very good but whilst ketones were present, they were low (0.8). It’s still ketosis and the accepted wisdom was that ketones were low if you’d eaten this way for a while, but @Azi’s results and the tests that Kelly Hogan was doing convinced me that it could be changed - and I started to wonder if a therapeutic GKI might help me to recover.

I changed things this week. It’s a mind shift; I just used to grab some meat twice a day and cook it, and I didn’t count/log. Knowing what I bought, I am confident it was generally:

  • 1800-2500 calories
  • f:p of between 1:1 to 1:1.5

Now it is:

  • 3000-3200 calories
  • f:p of 3:1

I am eating more by calorie but less volume of food. Meals are 4oz of meat with added fat - with fat added throughout the day. Before, it was 16oz of meat and then nothing between meals.

I also took Amber’s advice to consume fat before eating a meal containing protein, to send the body signals that fat should preferably be used for energy.

It’s a very different approach to 2MAD carnivore and the lack of food on the plate takes some getting used to. I don’t go hungry - I eat fat until I am satiated; it’s just the protein that’s been dramatically reduced so it looks different.

I’ll let you know how it goes. Again, I wouldn’t dive in with this as a starting carnivore - I don’t think it’s necessary for everyone, and I think you need to give your body and brain time to heal. It’s very freeing to just grab meat and cook it, rather than counting and restricting (this change isn’t restricting, but I think it could be mentally taxing for someone who has been logging and restricting for years without a break).

But if you’ve been carnivore a couple of years and you’re not seeing the results you want, or you’re in the aftermath of an illness, it might be worth changing up the fat:protein ratio.

In hindsight, I have complained multiple times about how most of the fat is trimmed off meat here. I think the fat:protein ratio would be a lot better on carnivore with traditional butchering instead of this post-1970s low fat world that we’re in.

(Judy Thompson) #59

I never thought about the connection between sunsets and mental health! But surely my head is more settled living in the country with beautiful sunrises and sunsets than it’s ever been in the city.
Here, I know the phase of the moon, as there’s no other light to guide me while walking with the puppy at night. It’s been brilliantly waxing and tonight it’s full. I always look forward to that.
When we’re in VA hubby keeps the TV on all day. Here we only turn it on to watch one series at lunchtime. That’s a huge difference. I don’t go out of my way to check headlines and don’t use the TV - to the point where I’m not even sure I could turn it on correctly if he weren’t here.


ahhh sorry on the crud cold thing that got ya. yea we got some stuff going around our area too. people just feeling off and clogged etc but happy you got negative :slight_smile: Hope ya feel better fast.

JJ I got San Antonio on my hit list in rv travel. I wanna do river walk even tho I know it ain’t no huge thing, but darn I wanna see it and wanna experience it once LOL If I do eventually come out that way, girl me and you gotta MEAT UP for sure :slight_smile: be some years before I get there but hey, ya never know :slight_smile:

great post and happy you are doing so well in surf physio and enjoying and YOU ARE so darn right I say any time, you feel YOU NEED you eat what you need. that is the body saying I must have and it isn’t some crazy emotional boredom type eating or anything like that, that is you doing your rehab and on the beach and you using your body :slight_smile: that is the body saying feed me now and it will treat ya great if ya do just that.

I very much enjoyed reading your post!!!

yes with meds and more, since you are not new at all, I fully understand your finding you now and if therapetic type zc eating will help then that is the path for you! Keep us updated on your progress and changes. Fab post!!

-----------------oh FB I am fresh meat. I love it best. I am a fan of fresh. I am not actually into buying aged or ?? or some fancy done up ?? LOL

fast post. didn’t sleep great. good travel trip home from vacay. back to the grind :wink:

must hit grocery store fast for some stuff. refrig is bare literally. I stop shopping before we leave on a longer trip so not much is left in there and last night kiddo said, omg there is NO food in the house and I rangled off a ton of things like shrimp, steak and burgers etc in freezer and she is like I want Ramen noodles and I just wanna slap myself truly but hey, whatever HAHA

I want a massive steak. sirloin? NY strip? Ribeye? will check prices. will see but I know what my first meal is gonna be-----honker steak MY way at home…yummmmm

be zc good all