Newbie with Psoriatic Arthritis

(Lesley) #21

Something I should of mentioned earlier (I didn’t want to make my already long post longer) is that when I first went keto I had immediate relief with my arthritis but leading up to the 3 month mark, which is when I had such success with my psoriasis too, I did have three VERY angry flare ups with the skin. This wasn’t usual for me. They lasted just a few days each time.

My psoriasis is all but gone now. Just a bit of dry skin in a few places on head. Nothing around the hairline or neck or in ears (where it has always been very bad). Skin is like new there. I had been using Calcipotriol for years and now use nothing for it. I do have a small patch on my back that hasn’t gone. About the size of my small finger’s nail.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed for you that your psoriasis calms down with time too. Sending positive vibes your way @rsahadi1975 :grin: Great to hear the arthritis is improving!

I don’t think I will be trying Clint’s program ever UNLESS, of course, keto and what I’m doing now starts to fail me. It’s great that so many people find success with him.

#22

Thank you for your suggestion. I may give it a try, if my current treatment fails me but I don’t see any reason to change anything right now. I have been symptom free for the last 4 years on a 90mg shot of Stelara every 3 months and haven’t developed any psoriatric arthritis yet.

The food choices in the program don’t sound particularly appealing to me after doing keto and fasting for the last 11 months. I have dropped around 22 kg and am within normal weight range for me so I am now pretty much happy where I am. I hope you will find something that works for you, too.

(Rsahadi1975) #24

But what is the purpose of it? Gut healing? Joint health?

(Lesley) #25

@rsahadi1975 Hi, It’s meant to be great for gut healing!

(Melanie Armistead) #26

Getting back to the question in the original post - it’ll be challenging, but hopefully you’ll be able to successfully reintroduce egg yolks, some nuts (like macadamias) and maybe even full-fat dairy.

I haven’t tried AIP but looked into it a while ago as I also have PsA (and hashimotos, exercise-induced asthma and a history of psoriasis and alopecia). I haven’t seen an AIP keto diet plan, but would focus on adding fat where you can: salmon and fatty meats, cook in lard/duck fat where possible, or ghee if you can tolerate it, add in as much avocado as you can if you like it, and a bit of olive/avocado/coconut/MCT oil wherever you can.

If you’re insulin sensitive (and not pre-diabetic/T2D like many of us on here), maybe even experiment with a few extra carbs (such as sweet potato, not sugar) - shock, horror, gasp, I know! Keto isn’t one size fits all - some have to stick to under 20g/day, others are flexible enough to stay in ketosis (or at least keep most of the benefits) at 50, 70, 100g/day.

Personally, Humira and methotrexate could only lower my CRP to 18-27, LCHF dropped it to 8 (so far) and the reduction in pain has been phenomenal (I’ve been off medication since January). My version of LCHF includes nuts, full-fat dairy, nightshades and an occasional wrap or piece of bread and incorporates 36 hour and extended fasting (mostly for autophagy but fat loss is a bonus for me). I’ve still managed to reduce inflammation significantly, lose a heap of weight, put all of my conditions into remission and reverse pre-diabetes without having to do AIP or strict keto - but my symptoms come back when I start eating more sugar (or a ‘normal’ diet).

It’s great to get input from others about their experiences and what has/hasn’t worked for them but everyone is different, so use their experiences as a starting point for self-experimentation to find out what works for you (and look at non-food causes of inflammation such as stress and sleep deprivation). Good luck with it!

(Richard Morris) #27

Prednisone is synthetic form of cortisol and is very effective in treating inflammatory diseases, but it has a significant effect very relevant for nutritional ketosis.

Cortisol acts on the insulin sensitive transports into cells (GLUT1 and GLUT4) making insulin less effective at drawing glucose out of circulation. It does this because cortisol’s job is to be our flight or flight hormone, so it’s trying to reserve glucose in circulation in case we need a rapid spurt of energy. In evolutionary terms, this is so we can run away from a threat or fight it. So this is a short term stressor. We see a sabre tooth tiger, we have to leg it, or put up a fight … either way we’re going to use that glucose, or become tiger food. That’s an acute dose, for a short term need.

The problem with chronic exposure to cortisol, is by making insulin less effective, over time our insulin production rises in response, and then we need to make more cortisol next time (to keep glucose elevated to respond to the tiger), and it becomes a cycle of increasing insulin resistance.

So that’s the bad news, prednisone is going to be fighting against your ketogenic diet. I suspect that someone on a ketogenic diet taking synthetic cortisol (or over producing it because they live stressful lives), might have the best chance to minimize the harm done by chronic high levels.

The good news is that one of the ketones we make, betahydroxybutyrate (BHB) specifically inhibits the inflammatory pathway.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3804

Our findings suggest that the anti-inflammatory effects of caloric restriction or ketogenic diets may be linked to BHB-mediated inhibition of the NLRP3 inflammasome.

So there is good mechanistic evidence to show how a ketogenic diet may improve inflammatory diseases. Of course it probably also helps that many foods that trigger those kind of responses are restricted from a ketogenic diet because they also have starch.

(Sisotek) #28

hi richard appreciate the informative reply,
it was a last resort, had no idea of the consequences
I wasn’t made aware of the impact it would have, i was fighting a losing battle and really felt i was weak caving into my cravings, so stress keeps pumping cortisol which keeps making the cells more resistant requiring more insulin hence the belly fat & constant cravings is that correct?

i’m keen to know if you are aware of people who have an immunity disorder who CANNOT tolerate fats & protein even in plant form such as oil, avocado, nuts etc & how they achieved bringing down their insulin resistance when all you can eat is carbs in a low Gi form, I’ve been eating split pea & lentil dahl to go on my steamed vegies but even that is hi in calories and spikes insulin, so it;s grass grass grass (salad)

(Richard Morris) #29

I haven’t run into anyone with an immunity disorder as restrictive as yours.

I don’t think fats per se will trigger an immune response, but the protein matrix they are bound in might. SO you may want to try rendered fats, like lard, or ghee to see if they trigger your symptoms.

(Sisotek) #30

Hi Rsahadi
how are you
hows the progress with the keto diet and the PsA

(Rsahadi1975) #31

Hey @sisotek. I’m hanging in there but it hasn’t been easy. Sorry, I haven’t been on this site in a while. My arthritis is still pretty bad and I’m not entirely sure if the keto diet helped or not anymore. I think it has helped a little bit but I’m not entirely sure anymore. I had originally been on Humira for about 4 months before starting the keto diet and stopped the Humira a week before starting the diet because I was still feeling terrible after being on it for 4 months. Two days into starting the keto diet, I started to feel better and thought it was the diet. It was definitely the best I had ever felt in a long long time. I was feeling pretty good for the next 6 weeks and then the pain all started to come back. I guess I didn’t realize how much the Humira was helping. The pain was overwhelming so I got right back on Humira. I am now trying to get Humira built back up in my system and it is taking a while. It is like starting all over with it. I’ve been back on Humira for about two months and probably will have another 2 months before I start to feel decent again. I tried going Paddison base line for a couple of days last week and felt worse so I stopped after a couple of days and I seem to feel better. I try to consume at least 50 carbs a day in veggies because I don’t want my uric acid levels to get to high. They did rise on keto and gout is the last thing I need. How are you doing?

(Sisotek) #32

Hi rsahadi
many thanks for the reply, sorry to hear of your pain, it’s hard to know what triggers are unless you are keeping a diary and sticking to a set menu at least for a few weeks
I’ve never been on any meds (suffered for it badly) last year i had a couple of shots of predislone which gave me instant relief for about 6-8 weeks, (for a mental break, felt amazing)
currently using high levels of probiotics for the past 3 mths, skin seems to be responding and found i recover faster since taking them, i’m moving slowly towards healing but keep sabotaging myself with sugar cravings,
i thought i could replace the calorie cravings with fats which is why i’m here and was keen to know of your progress, i tired avo oils bacon cream butter etc and it messed me up with inflammation so fats are out

the good news is i recover within 2 days once i start baseline eating such as salads smoothies etc, i also saw a Gastro re FMT, he made it clear it’s uncharted territory and at this stage most players are ripping people off without success, he did say we are inoculated at birth via our mothers so our biome is unique to everyone, and have altered the gut ecology, this makes sense to me, and why everyone’s diet has to be unique to them,
i found some people on the Pp could not handle grains so they converted to fruit for calories instead, you are trying fats (keen to know what else you are eating that may be causing inflammation), what i find affects me the most is sugar and i’m addicted to it, i’ve weaned myself off it several times in the past but i’m finding it more and more difficult these days, like my body or the current ecology is demanding it via cravings

Clints diet does work, i hate it for the fact it eliminates so much food i love, however i’m going to use it as a means of healing my gut and reducing the inflammation because it worked for me before, i was all clear in my blood work and feeling bullet proof with raging vitality, then along came stress and stupidity, smoking alcohol sugar etc etc, even as i write this i’m resenting the thought of the diet but it’s been the only thing that has worked !! i wish i had better news but i don’t,
the probiotics are working but i’m undoing the good work with crap sugary foods like biscuits chips fried food etc etc, i seem to do well until i start to crave and feel weak, then i binge when i should be loading up on vegies and sweet potatoes for carbs (they are safe for me, try the purple ones, there nutty)
currently i have cleared my days for the sole purpose of sticking to Pp diet whilst on the probiotics with the benefit of knowing it has worked and providing i stick to it for even a week i will know by then if it is working, i’m also using on & off Kefir viili and fermented food probiotics, ALL anti sugar food, my gut feeling is the sugar (rather excessive simple carbs plus calorie rich food) has done the damage on a cellular level for far too many years, and is well documented in human history, we were never meant to eat it so abundantly and so easily, hence this KETO forum, it’s almost anti sugar if you think about it. everyone is either fat, sick or diabetic, fat is just calories in a slow release form…

curious have you been tested for insulin resistance, i’m very resistant which i didn’t know about, adds another factor to hormone imbalance worth knowing,
keen to hear from you soon.
sisotek

(Beth) #33

Hi, I also have autoimmune issue reactive arthritis (it is associated with the same family of issues as psoriasis), it has been doing well since I’ve been on keto, although I believe it’s been milder for me than some. I got into this through the backdoor of paleo when I started following people in on a no starch diet who were feeling better with their arthritis. When I first started the paleo, something like 5 or 6 years ago, at first I had a terrible reaction and I could barely walk up a step my knees hurt so bad (lasted about 1 month). I think in retrospect, it may have been a die-off reaction from all the pathogenic microbes in my gut.

My knees never really felt great though, and it limited me in the exercise I was able to do.

After I went keto about 1 1/2 years ago, my knees started to feel much less painful and I haven’t had a flare in a long time (fingers crossed). Then me and my husband started the Autoimmune protocol diet in January, I kept mine keto. There are a lot of people getting relief with that for all types of autoimmunity, you may want to try that. It is restrictive at first, but if you follow it for a while, you get used to it (seriously) and then you start adding back foods to see what you are sensitive to. My husband is enjoying HUGE improvements in his IBS and eczema with that protocol.

Another interesting thing related to the gut is that when people who have RA fast, they see clearing of their symptoms and their pain returns when they start eating normally again.

I am so sorry you are going through this and I wish you luck in your journey. Here is an article from Chris Kresser about this constellation of autoimmune diseases and a low starch diet. You may find it helpful.

https://chriskresser.com/hla-b27-and-autoimmune-disease-is-a-low-starch-diet-the-solution/

(Edith) #34

For those of you who find fat increases your psoriasis, I have a question for you: does it matter the type of fat? For example: dairy fat causes trouble but olive oil fine.

The reason I ask is because my brother has PsA and for him the psoriasis part is the worst. Stopping all dairy has helped him tremendously, but I wonder if there is something else that may help. He won’t got all the way keto, but something is better than nothing.

(Rsahadi1975) #35

Hey sisotek,

Very glad to hear the PP baseline is giving you pain relief and the probiotics are working for you. I am very interested to know more about what kind and how much of the probiotics you are on. I’m currently taking a bifido which is supposed to be good but I can’t tell if it is helping. I am keeping a diary for the most part. I don’t track it every day because my diet is pretty strict.

I’m working with the following foods:

vegetables: asparagus, brussels sprouts, green leafy varieties of lettuce, zucchini, squash, green onions, yellow onions, cabbage, cucumbers, celery, baby bok choy, 1 -2 avocados a day, coconut milk, artichoke, olives, olive oil, avocado oil. Experimenting with carrots.

Meats: chicken, grass fed beef, turkey, salmon

That’s about it. What I keep seeing with arthritis is that there are two diet options, PP or super low starch/low carb/keto and I think it just all depends on what’s going on in your gut biome. The PP did make my skin look crystal clear but my pain continued to rise on it. I think it may have been the grains and the starches that cause me pain. I tried some buckwheat last weekend and my feet and back pain seemed to get worse so I backed off of it and it seems to be better now. I also think too much fat causes my skin to flare some. My arms are slightly flared this last week so I’ve been real sure not to cheat in any way and hopefully it will calm down. I feel like there isn’t a good way for me to get calories. If I substitute the fat for fruit, I get reactions. I think I have candida which is why I can’t do the fruit. There just doesn’t seem to be a good way for me to get calories without aggravating my symptoms.

Last week, my doctor ordered me a comprehensive stool analysis test. It was sent off this Monday so I should be getting the results soon. I thought it would be a good idea to get it so I could get a snapshot of what is going on in my gut. For example what types of bacteria or yeasts and how much of each type. I have been really interested in the FMT research but here in the US, it is only officially offered if you test positive for C. Diff. I have been reading how people have been using stool from healthy healthy family members and have had success with there autoimmune problems. Let me know if you wind up pursuing the FMT options.

As far as the insulin resistance, I really don’t know. I haven’t looked into it but I’ll ask my doctor about it. Thanks for the updates and good to hear from you.

(Rsahadi1975) #36

Hi Virginia,

I would say it all depends on the person. Eliminating dairy was a good one. I would then start experimenting by taking out the bad fats like saturated fats. Eat leaner protein. Stick with olive oil and avocado, avocado oil.

(Sisotek) #37

Hi rsahadi
keen to hear of the stool results, it’s expensive here so i have held off on rushing to do that, and as i said it’s an unknown science with what to do after they know, FMT is all experimentive at this stage for that reason i am not pursuing FMT, i do know it has helped with C Diff tremendously and some IBS SIBO and other bowel conditions.
i was and still am wondering about candida or other fungus like overwhelm to the system but in all honesty i found just eating clean fresh vegies mainly raw salads etc stopped the cravings and fungus i used to get in my ears toes groin real bad, ultimately it would be fantastic to categorically confirm this but the pathologists and scientists have an aversion to testing for fungus , either way once i give my liver a week or so to clear away the excess sugar it all stops without drugs or anything, and comes straight back when i start to binge again, so it’s feeding something i believe,

i get most of my calories from sweet potatoes (purple ones are great for salads) if you are reacting to fruit and grains it tells me you are sensitive to high calorie intake in what everform, i am the same, and stated the same words “how do i get calories if i can not have grains, fats or fruit”
how i get around it, aside from eating the vegies you listed i do not have any fats or meat other than a small drizzle of olive oil, and even that will go soon,
i juice celery cuc beet carrot ginger 1/2 green apple, then “blend” in parsley kale spinach cabbage bean shoots and anything else leafy green like beet tops etc, for fats & protein i add hemp powder and for fats i use chia seeds, then also add mineral powders if taking them.

this is my base i get the leafy green stuff in and helps with clean calorie & fat intake, when i get real bad and have the energy i fast for a few days, with juices veg broth miso soup, this helped a lot, and lost 25kg,
it’s a great way to settle the gut down and reduce inflammation fast, just make sure you are replacing the minerals or you’ll get head aches cramps etc

as for the Probiotics i’m using a mixture of high quality ones some from the net
Standard Process - ProSynbiotic or Renew Life, Extra Care, Ultimate Flora Probiotic and from chemists and naturopaths, it’s expensive but i’ve found it made a difference, however the main gains are from eliminating the meat fats sugars and grains and of course smoking alcohol processed food etc,

Personally my challenge is sticking to the regime long enough, i hit a craving wall and then go rogue on everything !!

hoping low inflammation for you
Sisotek

#38

Going zero carb has pretty much cured my PsA. I can literally trigger my psoriasis now on demand by simply adding carbs back into my diet. The higher the GI rating of the food, the worse it is.

If I have a low sugar protein bar then I usually don’t have that much of an issue, but if I drink a fizzy drink or eat sweets then it flares up very badly, including the inflammation. As for meats, I have only found processed stuff to cause inflammation.

I’m firmly of the belief that carbs are meant to be eaten as grazing foods as we look for an animal rich in protein and fat to hunt and kill. We’d graze on nuts and other carb heavy foods in between periods of fasting, and then we’d eat fat and protein rich matter from the animals we killed.

IMO, there has to be a strong link between PsA and diabetes and simply the expression of the symptoms is different, possibly due to different genetic makeup of the individual themselves. Trust me, eliminate carbs altogether and you will see vast improvement in a couple of weeks.

(Sisotek) #39

Hi @welshieee @rsahadi1975 @VirginiaEdie @bej10 @KetoWally

wanted to hear from this little group and see how we are going, welshieee inspired me to write as i read the last post, it chimed in with my beliefs about this horrible disease and the crooked path it leads us all down,
truthfully i’m hoping for some inspiration here, this group within this community i think is closer to healing chronic disease than any i have seen, weight loss and T2D would be a dream for us to have.

my update ~ i caved in grinding away trying to beat this disease when you are almost dying inside emotionally was a bad choice, ONLY because of the ignorance about the underlying cause of this disease, our little group probably has the closest honest experience of the deeper implication hi carb diet has on the body specifically with a weaker gene than others,
family stress, disease stress, personal stress, the toll it’s having on this one life we are given being wasted is very depressing, i’m now on injectable metho & 5-10mg of Pred,
i almost feel alive, less pain, less inflammation less depression anger etc etc, the family stress and the physical stress is still very much present, the drugs add an interesting twist as Pred raises insulin causing cravings, what i can add is being physical work or exercising is great for reducing inflammation, but isn’t it just reducing blood sugar after all,
if there was an AA group for carb addicts this would be it, my confession would go something like this,
my name is Sisotek and i’m a carb junkie,

how are you all going here?

(Rsahadi1975) #40

@sisotek What’s up brother! Haven’t talked with you in a while but I have often thought about how you are doing. Last I checked, you were on a steroid shot and were trying to grind your way out of the pain with a strict diet. It has been a little over a year since I last checked in. My last update over a year ago, I was grinding though my first month back on Humira. At around three months I started to feel like a human again and was finally starting to enjoy life again and then something started going on inside my nose. I started to get pain in my nose, inside the nasal lining. I thought it was some kind of infection. It started on the left side and then a week later, it started on the right side. My doctor thought it might be an infection so he put me on antibiotics and recommended I get off the Humira. I was so freaked out. After all the Clint Paddison training I was through about how bad antibiotics were for your digestion, I was so mad that I was going to have to take it. Long story short, I saw doctors and specialists every week for about 6 months taking more and more antibiotics, while suspending my Humira. Finally there weren’t anymore antibiotics left to take. I had been off Humira for almost 6 months and then the flare finally hit. It hit my entire body like I was being electrocuted. I had no choice but to get back on the Humira and I have been grinding my way out of pain for about 3-4 months now. Turns out the stupid nose thing wasn’t an infection. It is some kind of inflammation response. It’s either from my autoimmune disease or the Humira. Either way, I have been on Humira for 4 months and my nose stuff hasn’t changed. It’s not getting worse and I’m taking the Humira. I’m hoping that in about 2 more months I will be feeling like a human again. Each week, it has been getting better. There was one week about 20 days ago where I got an upper respiratory infection. The pollen here has been crazy this year. I took a Z-pack and suspended my Humira for 10 days and I am all well. It was my first real infection while on the drug and everything went way better than I imagined.

What have I learned through all of this? Take things one day at a time. When you run out of hope and you feel like giving up, just tell yourself that all you need to do is get through today and tomorrow will figure itself out. That is how I made it through these past few months. I have often thought about suicide but I have always managed to find enough hope to get me through the day.

Yes, this disease has paid a toll on my relationships with my family as well. I am doing the best that I can and I have hope that it will get better. I am a very creative person by nature, I love to do woodworking, paint, renovate my house, legos, develop software. Being in so much pain these past three years has prevented me from doing the things that I love. It is forcing me to be more “still”. I don’t like to be that way. I feel like God is putting me through this for a reason. He wants me to learn something. What exactly I am not sure but hopefully I will figure it out.

I have to get for now, As far as my diet goes, low carb, no grains seems to be the least painful for me. That’s about all I’ve figured out. Would love to actually be on Humira for more than 6 months straight. Hopefully I will make it a good while this time on it.

(Sisotek) #41

welshie
Hi welshie
i linked your name incorectly, hoping to hear from you with an update, maybe how you have managed to resist carbs, i find it so hard, esp when i’m upset and don’t care or just tired of thinking about what i can and can’t eat.
i agree with you entirely, actually ketowally and your self are probably the only people i know who have resolved the symptoms with a keto diet, ketowally was particularly interesting as her diet was pretty much a 3 mth fast, mixed with carbs,
I believe the body is managing blood sugar in a different way, as one Dr put it, we all have atherosclerosis due to our diet, the expression of that depends on your genetic weakness, some get T2D MS cancer adhd etc etc
an AA for carb addicts is probably the best base level support you can get, if there was one, a rehab for carb addicts, cheap and effective,
hope you are well and PsA free