Newbie with Psoriatic Arthritis

(Rsahadi1975) #1

Hi, I am considering going ketogenic to help my psoriatic arthritis. I am currently close to eating a Paleo AIP with occasional buckwheat and brown rice. I’ve gotten pretty skinny and don’t want to lose more weight. I am looking for a ketogenic diet plan for this particular disease, i.e., no eggs, nuts, nightshades, legumes, dairy, gluten, etc. Can someone point me in the right direction?

(Lesley) #2

Hi @rsahadi1975. I’ve had Psoriatic arthritis 21 years and went lchf/Keto nearly 6 months ago. It’s the best thing I’ve ever done. Within the first week my inflammation went. My psoriasis, after month three, mostly on my scalp/neck/ears, has gone. I’m on a fraction of the daily NSAIDs I use to take, and sometimes go weeks without taking any at all, although the damage previously done with flare-ups to my hands mean that they are still painful and stiff but improving all the time.

I had planned to go AIP/Keto, but the improvements were so great with what I was already doing there was no need to, in my case and so dairy and a few other things I still eat.

I keep between 15/30g of carbs a day. I have removed all gluten. And keep nightshade foods to an absolute minimum. I’ve been known to have the odd tomato. I did cut down dairy and swapped out cow’s milk and butter for goats. I do still eat cow’s cheese at times. I take omega 3, magnesium oil, goat’s milk kefir, and gelatin daily.

I feel that just going keto and cutting out any remaining sugars will have you seeing vast improvements. I still plan to experiment down the line with removing diary etc. But as things stand I’m doing so well just with Keto that I don’t feel the need to change things just yet.

This is a great interview to watch.

Dr Tom O’Bryan Leaky Gut | Rheumatoid Arthritis | Betrayal Documentary Series

#3

Hi rsahadi1975

I don’t have psoriatic arthritis but ‘only’ fairly severe psoriasis which I have been dealing with for the last 19 years. I do not want to discourage you from trying LCHF, but in my experience, neither LCHF nor intermittent or extended fasting has made a significant impact on my condition.
I must admit that I have never tried excluding any particular food from my diet except for the obvious starchy or sugary foods which you would avoid on a LCHF diet. However, the only thing that actually seems to work for me is medication. If you have not heard of it before: There are medications called ‘biologics’ to treat psoriasis. I am currently on a medication called ‘Stelara’ (Ustekinumab) which has been a godsend to me. I have not had any problems with psoriasis since I took it and I know that it can also be prescribed to people with psoriatic arthritis.
I hope I could help you anyway…
Best regards and I hope you will feel better soon
Scheybstar

(Lesley) #4

Sorry to hear keto didn’t help with your psoriasis @Scheybstar. My brother has it very severe and is also on biologics, so I feel for you. He will soon be starting keto though after seeing my results. Of course I’ll report back with anything of interest.

Over on reddit (keto section) there is a sub-thread about psoriatic arthritis and I was overjoyed to read they all had the same experience as me on keto and the diet did help, especially with the arthritis side of things.

@rsahadi1975 I don’t mean to get your hopes up as everyone is different as @Scheybstar points out it didn’t work for her. But you have nothing to lose by trying it. :wink:

(Rsahadi1975) #5

Hi, @KetoWally . Thanks for your response! Your response is really encouraging. So glad you are seeing results. It’s ironic that you posted the Dr. Tom O’Bryan Leaky Gut link. He is talking to Clint Paddison, a guy that beat horrific rheumatoid arthritis and he has a program called the Paddison Program for Rheumatoid arthritis. I watched this video last year. If you aren’t familiar with the Paddison Program, its like the opposite of a ketogenic diet. Your calories in the elimination diet are basically quinoa, buckwheat, sweet potatoes and white rice. All STARCH, zero fat. I spent about two months doing the Paddison program and I think my arthritis got worse while I was on it, although my skin looked really clear on it. I am about halfway though rewatching the video. Thanks again.

Edit: Dr. O’Bryan mentions the importance of butyrates. I’ve been reading about this lately and the bifidobacterium probiotic is suppose to be really good for producing this chemical. I stopped taking lactobacilli probiotics because it produces histamines which can potentially make inflammation worse.

(Rsahadi1975) #6

@Scheybstar. Thanks for the info. I have been taking Humira for about 3 months and am still in considerable pain. I am switching to Enbril to see if that will help more. One thing that I am pretty certain of is that sugars, even from fruit, and legumes, and probably gluten had to be eliminated to keep my pain at a minimum.

(Rsahadi1975) #7

Hey @KetoWally. What fats do you recommend I start off with? I know salmon is a great option. Do you eat bacon?

(Lesley) #8

Oh yes @rsahadi1975 I watched a lot of his videos too. I decided the Paddison program wasn’t for me. It’s Dr.Tom O’Bryan that I found helped me with understanding a lot of what was going on with leaky-gut and this particular interview with Clint was a good one.

I’m so very sorry to hear about the level of pain you are in. I’ve been there and do understand. I was on disease modifying drugs at one point (18 months) and felt worse on them. I refused to try any others. I wish you all the best in finding what works for you.

#9

Sure thing. I took Humira for a few months as well and it actually helped my skin condition until I had an allergic reaction. My doctors didn’t know, if it was because of Humira but switched me to Stelara anyway. I have been more than happy with the medication since and I know that this is also pretty much the go-to medication for psoriasis arthritis at the clinic I go to. I hope you will do well on Enbrel. Best of luck :slight_smile:

(Lesley) #10

@rsahadi1975, I keep to lard and coconut oil for cooking. Olive oil and organic coconut oil for eating raw in fat-bombs and salads etc. I hear that avocado oil is brilliant but it bit to pricey for me to try. I do get a lot of my fats from foods though like eggs and avocados daily. And of course fatty bits of meat. Yum bacon!

Edit: Yes salmon would be excellent too!

(Sisotek) #11

Hi All
happy coincidence to be here, i was going to start a newbie post but seems this is as good a place as any to start as it is so relevant to why i’m here,
i’ve had PsA for 10yrs, and was about to give advice but during my journey into reversing this horridly painful disease, i discovered every one responds differently to food, but there is one constant that worked for me, i’ve read a great deal about diets inflammation Leaky gut and finally insulin resistance aka keto living, so i hope i can offer some insights,

firstly FOR ME the paddison program worked instantly, 6-8 weeks i was symptom free !!! i think because i never took the meds that wreck yr gut but suffered for it a great deal physically & mentally, or because i just believed in it desperate and never strayed, that was 5 yrs ago, a bit(lot) of stress and a bit of over confidence led me write back on the path of sabotage & destruction & ended up way worse than before,
clearly i hadn’t learn’t my lessons and hated the fact i was looking at a life without fat & meat, let alone pizza pasta n bread,

secondly i do not believe being human and eating like a rabbit is the answer, (hope Clint isn’t listening, he’s a good man and passionate) which is why i’m here, i want to know if i’m alone with trying to go keto and having bad inflammatory responses, most leaky gut protocols include fats & proteins (including Dr O"Bryan and Co), i can tell you as a former forum member almost all of the people who DO stick with the protocol are symptom free within mths and Psoriasis goes with 2-3 weeks, those who still eat fat & protein take years longer to heal if at all from my observations.

I discovered after following Dr Schmidts protocol on Ketogenic healing, i don’t do things by halves and never read instructions, i lost 5kgs of weight in 3 weeks but ended up with DD breast implants in my knees, so Clint knows his stuff, fats & proteins are a key factor in keeping Arthritis in your body, i’m not advocating carbs here nor does Clint, the white stuff is not the beginning nor the end of the disease, it’s just being totally ignorant of nutrition and what works for us individually, i love bread pasta pizza but discovered it makes me a nervous wreck, I want to smoke, drink, bite my nails & gorge on junk food, if i was born in the 20ies i’d be on medication or in a padded room, so the road has been extremely hard for me to give up all my vices including fats & proteins, yet it has been worth it, but i’m not healed !!

currently i’m on a 5 day unsupervised 80% water fast with (veg broth, veg juice, when needed), to be honest i have no idea how i’m doing so well, after a few days of lethargy i’ve come out with surprisingly good energy a sharper mind, “and” i can almost hear myself think, my tinnitus has reduced, my skin & inflammation are reducing, the chronic anger & mood has lifted, (my family say i’m an animal always have been), i’m happy for no reason and that’s rare to the point i’m unsure i’m not possessed or would that be exorcised,
i’ve been taking my keto & bsl levels but don’t believe i’ve crossed the line, perhaps it’s because i have high insulin resistance or because my body has lived on carbs for so long it’s going to take time to shift over, my levels are keto blood (0.5) and bsl (4.9)

i’m here because i wanted to know if you can force your body into ketosis by fasting, if so what should the average readings be and where do i go from here, when i can’t eat protein & fats, (ps that includes plant based fats nuts avocados oil etc etc etc) am i alone ?

i want to be healthy & eat like a nutritionally conscious human that includes fat, protein & pork crackle !
first post done

(Rsahadi1975) #12

@sisotek, Man, I feel like an idiot earlier for recommending you try the Paddison Program. I just saw this post that says you tried it already. I’m glad to hear that it worked for you initially. I’m not an expert on ketosis. I am glad to hear that your fast is going well. Good luck to you!

(Rsahadi1975) #13

@sisotek I’m not an expert on ketosis. Just starting out. My only advice for now, which I know is not the answer you are looking for, is get the right probiotic. Clint recommends brown rice miso paste which is impossible to find without soy in it. And also sauerkraut. Those kinds of probiotic bacteria are lactobacilli. I have been reading the Keystone Approach and discovered that lactobacilli produce histamines which can potentially inflame your immune system. What the author of Keystone Approach recommends is bifido bacteria. They produce butyrates which regulate inflammation. Seeking Health sells a bifido probiotic on Amazon. I believe that our auto immune disease is like an immune system that has been put in a feedback loop. Like when you get the microphone too close to the speaker and you either have to get the mic further away from the speaker, or turn the mic off for it to stop the loop. So there are different ways of killing the feedback loop. One of them is diet, another is the right probiotic, another is good sleep, etc. We can tackle the disease from all angles and reduce the feedback loop. Hope that helps. This disease sucks. I’m only one year into it and can’t imagine dealing with this for much longer. I’m in-between meds right now. Switching from Humira to Enbril. Humira didn’t have much of an effect. I know people with PsA that take it and are completely pain free. Again, this disease is different for everyone and we all have to discover what our bodies respond to.

(Lesley) #14

I second that… probiotics are essential on this healing journey!

(Sisotek) #15

Hey rsahadi 1975
as i’ve mentioned i haven’t taken any of the meds (10yrs) but this year i couldn’t take it any more not the pain but the inability to think straight, so i had a shot (not oral) of Pred that lasted 3mths pain free instantly 24hrs almost human, it had one side effect, it spikes insulin so i craved carbs bad like a was possessed, had i know i would have mentally prepared for it, given the Rheum have no idea about food and the effects their drugs have, no one gets the heads up, so if you do choose to have a shot it will give you a clear path to focus pain free on a process whatever that may be,
as for probiotics i have & do take them but i really feel it needs to be fed into the system without all the food that compromises their effect which is why i fasted, not sold on them but have been looking at enterically coated ones that release in the right area of the gut & not the stomach, thanks for the lacto tip i tend to agree,
most of the guys i follow all agree on one thing “leafy green” all the way, so i juice vegies & then blend in spinach, bean shoots, parsley, etc etc so i get them without having to chew them all day long, the science behind it is geens have only one molecule that only needs to have a mineral element swapped out for it to be used for blood in the process, maybe iron or potassium etc
trust me it makes a big difference with inflammation
@KetoWally @rsahadi1975 I’m curious are you trying to cure a leaky gut if so the theory is undigested protein is travelling across the intestinal membrane which is why Clint is so against fat & protein,

so why do you think a keto diet will get you where yr going??
i’m going in the same direction but bypassing the F&P at this stage

(Lesley) #16

@sisotek I do think the cause of all autoimmune disease is leaky gut. The reasons I think this diet will work for me is that it’s already working for me and for a lot of other people with arthritis. I know one sock doesn’t fit all though. You are living proof of that right.

I watch endlessly videos from doctors and other health professionals, all coming at it from different directions (Hashimoto’s,Arthritis,Celiac,MS,Parkinson,Alzheimer etc.), and the majority are all singing form the same hymn sheet. Leaky-gut is the root cause and so cut out the inflammatory irritants (gluten,sugar,bad oils,processed food,etc.) and add a pro-biotic and bone broth to heal the gut in the long term.

Of course you have the next step of removing different things and reintroducing them carefully over time. Especially dairy and eggs and even meat for some people. Fortunately for me I don’t seem to be reacting to goat’s milk products or eggs. I haven’t ruled out further down the line experimenting with removing these items. But for now, I feel soooo good that I am not willing to mess with my diet. In the mean-time I continue to read and watch vids of everyone and anyone that has any insight to the above.

I guess I should also add that I followed a strict vegetarian diet for 13 years and for the first two years I was mostly dairy free too. So for 6 years before the arthritis made it’s first appearance I was meat free and for many years after. So maybe I just not convinced that it’s an issue for me due to that experience.

(Rsahadi1975) #17

@sisotek In regards to leaky gut, I think Clint’s theory about proteins and fat crossing the gut membrane is only one possible scenario for a cause of inflammation. When I was on the Paddison Program, I noticed that my skin never looked clearer. It was already in really good shape from eliminating processed foods and eating really clean but the Paddison Program made my skin look amazing. I looked at least 5 years younger and it was from eliminating fats. The bad news was my arthritis was getting WORSE while on the program. I noticed that only some people on the program were getting better but not everyone. Clint thinks that our diseases are all the same and they can be healed if you stick to the no protein/no fat plant based diet. That’s just not the case. Its going to be different for everyone. I have since learned that the cause for certain people with PsA is an invasive bacteria that feeds off of starch and/or sugars. The bad bacteria release byproducts that cause havoc for our immune system. I have been ketogenic now for about 3 or 4 days now and I can feel a significant difference in my pain dropping. I think the keto diet is depriving the bad bacteria from the starch and sugar that it likes to feed off of and my arthritis is calming down. I am actually not in agony anymore! I’m like 80% sure this is related to the keto diet. The only other thing that has changed is I am taking a new antidepressant and I had a week off from work during Thanksgiving and I know the rest helped. More time will tell I think. BUT, my skin is starting to break out with a little bit of psoriasis again because of all of the fat I’m eating. I’m pretty sure its the fat. The only other stuff I’m eating is Paleo AIP friendly green veggies. Those I’m pretty sure are safe for everyone across the board. So it looks like my disease has a different trigger for the psoriasis and a different trigger for the arthritis and the solutions for each seems to oppose each other. I can either go ketogenic and eliminate arthritis or go low fat and have clear skin.

Back to the leaky gut theory, I was in so much pain even with Humira that I had to be on Celebrex. I have not been on Celebrex for about 5 days now. I think I would rather have psoriasis and not be on Celebrex so I can heal my gut. Bone Broth, Glutamine, Slippery elm, Curcumin, the right probiotic and stay off of NSAIDS.

(Rsahadi1975) #18

@Scheybstar When I was on the Paddison Program (Clint Paddison), my skin went from good to fantastic. His elimination diet is the opposite of keto. You give up animal protein and all fats. The elimination diet consists of quinoa, buckwheat, sweet potato, occasional rice, and green leafy vegetables. I have been on the keto diet now for about 4 days and have discovered that it inflames my psoriasis, however, it seems to really be helping my arthritis. You and I may have a similar cause for our psoriasis. You might want to try Clint’s program and see how it fairs with your psoriasis.

(Rsahadi1975) #19

Question about the gelatin. What are you using it for?

(Lesley) #20

I buy Great Lakes Unflavored Gelatin, from amazon UK.