Newbie here!

(Melissa Willick) #1

Hi everyone! Newbie to the group… looking forward to getting to know you! I’ve been doing Keto since Nov 7 of this year. The first ten days I started, I quickly went down 5 pounds and haven’t budged from that number since. I have only used KetoStix thus far, but know they are working as the first few days there was no ketones showing, to now where it’s consistantly in the medium to high range, depending on the time of day. I “feel differently”, like I’m buzzing so I’m pretty sure I’m in ketosis. I bought a blood ketone testing monitor today too, but if you can believe it, the Wal Mart didn’t carry the ketone testing strips for my tester, only the glucose strips! So I have to find them in another store… anyhow, my question has to do with personal macros.

I followed Leanne Vogel’s directions in her Keto Beginnings book and my macros were way off from what I’ve been doing all month. I’ve been doing 20g of carbs, 110g of fat and 70g of protein. After a page full of Leanne’s math, (not my strong suit BTW!!) my percentages came out at 3.1% carbs (19g), 79.8% fat (229g) & 17.1% protein (110g). So while I was in the 20g of carb range all month, the fat & protein #'s are way off… do you think this could be why I haven’t really lost any weight?

While weight loss is my ultimate goal following Keto, I can’t believe how much better I feel already. I have no cravings, am never hungry & have more energy…so I know that this is right for me! I used to eat at fast food restaurants 3-4 days a week, and a self diagnosed carb ADDICT. I’ve cut out all sugar that I can, (you can’t take it out of a vegetable!) and don’t miss it at all! Mind you, I was never really a “sweet” addict, but give me the salty, crunchy snacks!! Anyhow, thought someone might be able to comment & offer some insight! Cheers to you! :slight_smile: MJ, Kelowna, BC Canada

(Rob) #2

I am far from an expert and others will no doubt chime in but back of the envelope, that is quite a lot of calories (about 2600?). I know we are not supposed to be worried about calories while adapting but might that be inhibiting weight loss even though other positive processes are starting and continuing?

Percentages and absolute volumes are tricky to balance in my limited experience.

Just a thought.

(Nancy ) #3

I have no opinion on your macros, but as to your last comment about salty crunchy snacks … Dollar stores or Walmart carries pork rinds in the chip aisle. No carbs, crunchy, salty, fatty…YUM! Nice to have an alternative to potato chips. Unfortunately, I live in South Africa and the only pork rinds I have found are fried in an oil that causes an inflammatory reaction in me (achy hips):cry:. Anyway…enjoy for me if you decide to try them!

(Naomi Brewster) #4

Hi there MJ and welcome. Good start - the first few weeks and months on keto can be a huge learning curve - you’ll be watching stuff on YouTube, reading books and asking questions on forums. Eventually it will settle down. While there are general guidelines, mostly what you will learn is that we are all different physiologically, microbiome’ly (!) and metabolically - you have to experiment - try things out - ok, that didn’t work - I’ll try this - that kind of approach. So you will need to assess where you are metabolically, and physically. You may start out with symptoms - i.e. my main symptoms when I started were acid reflux, huge weight gain and inflammation systemically. I was pretty excited to get on top of the first and the last symptoms within a couple of weeks (seriously) and the weight fell off me initially which was exciting. Then things started coming up and I would turn my attention here or there depending on my symptoms or things I was learning.

So to address your questions directly:

  1. Sounds like you’re sorting out the macros. Eating 20g of carbs per day or less is the first and most important. Protein macros .08% of lean body mass (calculators on line). Eat fat to satiety - don’t worry about calories. Once you get this down you’re most of the way there. Later when you’ve been doing it a while and haven’t got a headache from TMI AND when weight loss stalls or problems arise you can revisit this question for reassessment (types of fats, ratios etc)
  2. If you are starting out with fatty liver or high toxic load etc - sometimes people can have a hard time converting ketones in the liver. Liver support and possibly detox (I use digestive greens and green smoothy every morning but look up other options) will help with the conversion and may help with getting the weight loss kick started. Make sure you are passing number two every day too to make sure you are eliminating the toxins rather than recirculating them in the system.
  3. Make sure to be including enough magnesium and salts in your diet as the conversion from glucose burning to fat burning can leave you depleted - a good book currently promoted is ‘the salt fix’ by nick deagostino (or something like that). Note - this will also help with number twos.
  4. Pay attention to non-dietary related lifestyle that may be impacting on your health - sleep, stress, circadian rhythm etc.

That’s about all for this initial period. Mainly search on here for questions you may have and doubtless someone else has had the question - while YouTube houses a lot of junk some of the channels are awesome - my favourite are High Intensity Health and Foundmyfitness.

(Melissa Willick) #5

HI! Yes, I feel that’s too many calories as well. Starting weight is 215 x 15 gives me 3225 as my daily calorie needs, less 20% for weight loss (645) to give me a new DCN of 2580 calories. Do you have a different formula to try so I can adjust my macro’s? While I want to live a healthier lifestyle, my main reason for trying Keto is weight loss. Any insight is appreciated! MJ :grinning:

(Melissa Willick) #6

Oh… I tried those… sorry, but they’re nasty LOL! :stuck_out_tongue: And hello to you all the way across the world from me! :grinning:

(Richard Hanson) #7

I have tried a lot of new foods on Keto and I have come to a simple conclusion, I am just not going to eat foods I don’t like … no they’re nasty … foods. I gave up a lot of things I loved to eat and I can live with that by telling myself there are so many great foods that I can eat, and this works for me.

Keto is not a punishment, it is a culinary joy.

Warm Regards,
Richard

(Melissa Willick) #8

Oh I hear you Richard! I gave up a lot of things that I loved… so no, I won’t eat it if I don’t like it. However, I have also tried a couple things that I have never eaten since being a child and was forced to eat. Example, cauliflower…HATE this vegetable, but tried it “riced” and hidden in my recipes, and you know what, it’s not too bad. I am a very picky eater, especially in the vegetable department. All my fav’s are full of carbs and on the “no go” list – corn, carrots, potatoes, peas. I HATE avacado, but discovered that avacado oil isn’t too bad. Not a fan of eating peppers, but don’t mind the taste, so I’ll add them for the flavour but pick them out if they’re bigger than a piece of rice LOL! Good thing I love meat, but not a huge fan of fish, salmon is OK and no shell fish other than prawns/shrimp. So I don’t have a lot of choice there either… But I feel good on this lifestyle, so I shall endure! So this is challenging for me, but I WILL DO IT!!

(Melissa Willick) #9

Hi Naomi,

Thanks for your reply! I do take magnesium/calcium daily, and have for a long time. And I switched to himalayn pink salt at the beginning of the month. Luckily, I like salt, so I add it a lot and if craving, have no problem adding it to my water to drink… While I was tired for the first couple of weeks, I seem to have more energy now, and managed to avoid the “keto flu” symptoms like headaches etc…

As for acid reflux, I used to have it often, (before keto) but I started taking betaine hcl and that really helped. I’ve had a couple AR episodes since starting keto, but just toughed it out with taking anything. I read somewhere to eat a pickle and that should help! Since they’re low carb, I will try that next time. The whole point for me of going keto, is to get healthy & lose weight, so I don’t want to “take a pill for that” every time.

My macro’s seem off, but my starting weight is 215 pounds, so that times 15 to find my daily caloric needs. 215lbs x 15 = 3225. (DCN) So then to lose weight: DCN - (DCN x 20%) = Weight Loss DCN which gives me 2580 Weight Loss DCN. That daily caloric need of 2580cal seems too high, but that’s years of following a low fat diet mentality. I figured out my macro’s based on that number.

Any other macro formula’s you think I could try, I’d recalculate. I am doing keto for weight loss, then to maintain the lifestyle.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply! :+1:

#10

Yikes! That’s a LOT of fat and probably a lot of calories too. There can be such a thing as too much fat and too many calories. When you consider that you want your body to tap its own fat reserves, you may not wish to give it quite so much via meals. There are several good calculators on the web, including the one below from the Impulsive Keto site which is set to a 20% deficit for weight loss (be sure to put your height in inches). Perhaps give it a shot and compare that to what Vogel recommended? You’ll notice with the calc below that you get a fat minimum and maximum (most stick closer to the minimum for weight loss), daily calories, and protein. Let me be clear: those numbers are simply recommendations for those who use macros. They are not “hard and fast,” and of course you have some play. Like all calcs, they simply produce guidelines. http://impulsiveketo.com/wp/macros/

(Rob) #11

As smarter Keto-ers than me have said, calories are not so important to Keto so my only semi scientific experience really with calories was in my old calorie restriction days.

I’ll just say that the BMR calculators are pretty generic and seem to be better for average people than those metabolically challenged. The findings from obese people who have tried extended calorie restriction is that they have massively reduced the basal metabolic rate by 6-800 calories. Add to that that I have found the initial limits from most calculators are typically generous anyway and the adjustments for cardio exercise or lifestyle are also way over-generous you get a huge number like 3200 which even with your adjustment wouldn’t leave as a deficit.

All that said, I’m not sure it counts in Keto like it does under glucose burning. You are reordering your processes and recomposing your body so weight loss isn’t essential or even necessarily desirable at the start.

I am male but heavier than you and found I couldn’t get a reasonable deficit even at 1800 even with lots of cardio prior to Keto. I naturally wanted 2500-3000. Those Biggest Loser types ate 800 calories and worked out 4-8 hours a day and killed their BMR so when they stopped the full time exercise and ate a reasonable number of calories, they almost all put most/all/more of the weight back on (per a Harvard study). Now I don’t worry about it and find that I couldn’t eat that much if I tried. I often get full on 1300 now but weight loss is still variable and nothing like as fast as those guys who drop 25lbs in 25 days. Patience is golden and the other benefits are all worth it in the meantime. KCKO (duh!) :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

(Melissa Willick) #12

Thanks April - I found a couple of others to try and adjusted my macro’s. Feel better now that I’ve balanced it to 19g Carbs, 75g Protein & 125g Fat… feels like a much more balanced, classic Keto macro set!!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #13

That does sound much more reasonable. Feel free to adjust the fat up and down to match your appetite any given day. Eat till you’re not hungry, and don’t eat again until you are. That sounds easy, but if you get carb cravings, the way I do, it can sometimes be hard to tell the difference between a craving and actual hunger. Just keep calm and keto on, and don’t worry what your scale is telling you—look for what’s happening to your bra and waist size, etc. Women can sometimes put on lean muscle at the same time as they are losing fat on a keto diet, so the scale is not always a reliable guide to the health you are regaining.

(sandra) #14

Just curious where that 215 x 15 for your calorie needs came from?

(Melissa Willick) #15

Page 40 of Leanne Vogel’s Keto Beginnings book… weight mutliplied by 15 for females, by 16 by men.

Calculate
Calculate.JPG510×586 69.1 KB

(Rob) #16

Wow! That I still way high compared to any other calculator I’ve seen. LoseIt and MFP estimate calorie budgets of about 2600 +/- 300 depending on activity for a 255lb male and that is probably far too high for those with a damaged BMR.

(Melissa Willick) #17

Agree Rob! That’s why I adjusted my macro’s based on a 1500cal day… 19g Carbs, 75g Protein & 125g Fat now and hopefully some weight loss will follow! :slight_smile:

(Rob) #18

Cool. Looking forward to your progress. :grinning:

(Richard Hanson) #19

Mi Melissa,

When my doctor put me on keto he prescribed:

Net Carb < 20 g/day
Protein < 50 g/day (0.8 g/day per kg lean body mas)
Total Energy < 1000 kcal/day

When fat adapted, I might be eating only 1000 kcal/day but I had a lot of energy stored as body fat, and it is available. I am burning a lot more calories then the 1000 kcal/day that I am eating, it is just that the balance is coming from stored fat. For those that are thin, this does not work as well.

I now fast two days a week and eat my 7000 kcal/week in the remaining 5 days at 1400 kcal/day but I am starting to have issues. I have lost 60 lb and have only about 20 lb to go.

Someone who is eating SAD, the standard american diet LFHC, sugar burners, have a significant insulin response to their food intake and that response makes it difficult, at best, for them to utilize their fat deposits. It is as if they have this massive walk in freezer of stored energy, but the door is locked. Insulin stops the mobilization of body fat. So, in response to a significant caloric deficit, the body has no choice but to balance the equation by reducing energy output and increasing energy input. The metabolism slows dramatically, you feel cold and lack energy, and you get ravenously hungry. You also utilize protein as an energy source.

One thing I found incredible about keto life was how little hunger I experienced even after weeks of eating only 1000 kcal/day. Before, I could gorge late in the evening, stuffing lots of junk into my body to the point where I was painfully full, distended, and still I would feel like I was starving. Now, I can go days without eating anything at all with at best only moderate levels of hunger that I experience for short periods of time.

This is starting to change and I am starting to experience a bit more hunger and even a slight chill at times when fasting, but I am 6’ 2" and down to 185 lb so my body does not have the same massive energy stores that it did when I started at 248 lb.

Once fat adapted, I would not be afraid to eat a very significant caloric deficit. Before you are fat adapted, early in the process, it might be prudent not to go hard core on a calorie deficit, but eating lower energy will also help move you into ketosis. The quickest way is to fast, eat nothing at all, but you can make an easier transition by simply eating a bit more fat so long as net carbs is quite low and protein intake is moderate. After you are in ketosis, your body will have access to your stores of fat and it will use that for energy in preference to just reducing your metabolism.

One important thing to know is that you will need more salt when eating keto then when eating SAD. I employ a salt shaker, both at home and at work, with enthusiastic vigor. When fasting, I just eat quite a bit of salt as if doing shots of tequila.

Keto for Life!

Warmest Regards,
Richard

(Marie Dantoni) #20

Hi Richard, My macros put me at 1300 calories based on carb/protein allotments. That’s pretty low and I have believed that it would cause my metabolism to slow down. The way you have explained things makes so much sense. Thank you !
Marie