Newbie confused by protein,too much, too little?

(Simon Hinton) #1

Hi, I am new to Keto, though would class myself s being low carb for a few months. I first became aware of low cab through the Obesity code by DR Fung, and then followed up with further reading with Taubes, Teicholz and Lustig, as well as watching youtube and listening to the 2 keto dudes podcast.

One thing I am confused about is protein, and there seems to be two camps saying reduce protein, and the other saying its not an issue. Can anyone provide any clarity. ?

I have been trying to stick to the recommendation of 1 to 1.5g of protein for lean body mass. I reckon that would be between 70-105g., however when i track my macros i seem to be hitting 150 -200g’s. I can’t seem how to work out to get the requisite fat, but not overdo the protein. Does anyone have any tips? Thank you in advance for any replies and help

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

Don’t worry about it. You want to be eating somewhere in the range of 1.0 - 2.0 g/kg lean body mass/day. So if you weigh 200 lbs./91 kg, your lean mass might be, say, 140 lbs./63 kg, so you would eat 63 - 126 g of protein, or 9-18 oz./252-500 g of meat.

As long as your carbohydrate intake stays low (we recommend keeping it under 20 g/day), then the quantity of protein will not be too relevant to your insulin level, because your glucagon level will adjust to compensate. The rest of your calories can come from fat: the butter, tallow, lard, or bacon grease you cook with, the mayonnaise and cheese in your salad dressing, the heavy cream in your gravy and in the cheese sauce you put on your vegetables. Get enough fat to assuage your hunger, and stop eating when you stop being hungry. Then don’t eat again until you are hungry again. Try eating this way, and let us know how it works for you.

(Simon Hinton) #3

Thanks PaulL. I will give that a go. I guess this is part of getting used to this way of eating. Before i would just cut the calories. The make up of the calories wouldn’t bother me. Now I am not counting calories, but now i am looking more at the macros. I guess in a way it is easier counting carbs to 20, than it was counting calories before :grin:

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #4

Well, I certainly think so. The standard dietary guidelines seem to have been promulgated by people who want to blame the rest of use for being lazy gluttons, and the advice to “eat less, move more” seems calculated to make anyone who tries it miserable. The problem is that a high-carbohydrate diet works against all sorts of mechanisms in the body. On the other hand, a well-formulated ketogenic diet is more like what we evolved to eat, so it is much easier, but it also means throwing out all the stupid dietary advice they’ve inculcated us with over the past sixty years. Give up sugar and carbs? Eat meat and fat? That’s crazy talk, in terms of what we grew up with, but it sure works better for our bodies, let me tell you.

#5

The camp that is against too much protein is usually concerned about Gluconeogenesis (GNG). They think that because GNG can convert proteins into glucose, all excess protein will turn into glucose.

Two problems with that:

  • GNG can also convert fats into glucose.
  • GNG is demand-driven, not supply-driven.

OTOH, too little protein over an extended period can be really bad, because the body will start getting the proteins it needs from muscle tissue.

(Simon Hinton) #6

Thanks Ogre

(Robert C) #7

If you were eating Ribeye steak…which has good Keto macro percentages…
3 ounces (85 grams) of Ribeye steak has 15 grams of protein (I assume you are not confusing total weight with protein grams).
You would be eating 30 to 40 ounces (850 grams to 1.13 kilograms) of Ribeye per day.
That is 2130 to 2840 total calories.
Assuming you are a male and assuming you want so much protein to lift weights - I’d still shoot for lower than 150 grams per day and more fat instead - maybe below 120 (the top end of the range you calculated - 105 grams - is meant for highly active people).
Definitely avoid any protein from a man-made source (no bars, no powders etc.). If you are having those and dropping those brings you down to 100-120 - that would be good.

(Robert C) #8

If you have 70 kilograms of lean body mass (154 pounds) then instead of the range being 70 to 105 (per the 2KD suggestion) it would be 70 to 140 (per Paul’s suggestion). Still lower than the bottom of your current range so probably should go down.

(Simon Hinton) #9

Thanks Rob, appreciate the advice and taking the time. I don’t do powders or the like. Its mainly meat. I think maybe I have been having too much lean meat and should instead be trying fattier cuts as well.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #10

Also age matters. If you are north of 50yo then extra protein to account for sarcopenia (the loss of lean muscle as you age). But exercise is also helpful to prevent the loss or even to gain lean mass.

(Simon Hinton) #11

Thanks Daddyoh. I am 39 so don’t need to think about this for a few more years, but good to know. I had never heard of this before. I love the knowledge sharing I am experiencing on this board.

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #12

Hello Simon. Your overthinking this. If you want to count things for a short while, just to get an approximate idea of what your eating, that’s fine. But IMPO, your exact macro balances are just not that important.
I have never counted anything… Except to keep my carbs very low.
Lost all the weight I wanted too in about 10 weeks, and have been completely stable for about the last 3 months now.
Keto can be as easy or as complicated as you make it.