Newbie approach to Keto - do I need to be stricter?


#1

I’ve never been on a diet in my life before so this is all very new to me and after other peoples thoughts…

I’m 48, 6ft male weigh 95kg. I eat well and reasonably healthily & enjoy cooking but I’ve pilled it on in recent years and feel heavy and cumbersome. So thought i’d try something along the lines of a keto diet. The thing is I can’t do all the calorie counting approach, it’s just not me and I know it. So it’s more a lifestyle change of eating a bit differently and increasing exercise.

I started 2 weeks ago and have a few questions:
In general I’ve cut out all the obvious food, white food, root vegetables etc. The odd day it just isn’t possible to be that strict and I’ve had carbs. Does this mess things up in that it effects the work you’ve done or is it ok to have a day here and there eating normal level carbs?

I never thought I had a sweet tooth, but doing this has made me realise I have a bit (mainly missing fruit) and I’ve found that drinking zero sugar fizzy drinks sort of helps that little craving every now and again. Is this ok?

In terms of what I eat, how important is it to consider amounts? - Obviously don’t over-eat, but I’ve been more or less eating when hungry - lots of salads, omelettes, chicken type meals. Do I need to reconsider how much I’m actually eating as well in order to loose weight, or will it just come off by eating keto recipes?

I’m looking at loosing about 15kg.


#2

If that means you’re only planning on being on keto temporarily, I’d say don’t bother.

You need to find a sustainable way of eating that gets you the results you want. If you need keto to lose weight, you’ll probably need keto to maintain the weight loss.

If you have a sustainable way of maintaining weight after keto, then that way of eating should be able to lose the weight as well, without ever using keto.

For myself, I’ve been doing keto for 3+ years and need keto for weight loss and will still need it for weight maintenance afterwards, for two reasons:

  • It helps control my hunger. Before keto, I was ravenously hungry all the time.
  • It helps control my blood sugar. I’m a type 2 diabetic. Before keto, I used to use both insulin and metformin to control BG. I haven’t needed any T2D medications for years.

Otherwise, short-term keto will probably look like this:

  • You’ll lose water weight quickly as you go into ketosis, because glycogen stores will start dwindling, releasing the water that was bound to the glycogen.
  • Depending on how much you eat, you’ll either gain or lose weight, just like regular dieting. One advantage of keto is there can be a loss of hunger, because carbs and insulin are no longer messing with the sense of hunger. But, if you need that advantage, guess what happens when you stop keto?
  • When you stop keto, you may see a quick water weight gain, as glycogen stores start building up again, once again binding up water.

(Bob M) #3

I think it depends. Some people don’t really need to go keto, and can lose by cutting back on sweets, breads, etc. Others (like me) have done so much damage to themselves, we need to go lower/lowest carb to try to repair.

It also depends on what happens when you eat some carbs. There are plenty of posts from people who ate some carbs and went off plan for weeks, months, years. If you find yourself surrounded by empty bags of potato chips and candy wrappers, eating some carbs might not be good.

In the beginning, I tried having some sweet, zero calorie drinks, fake “chocolate” (maltitol – bad news), etc. But I quickly found it was better for me to go “cold turkey” than it was to attempt to eat those things. The “sweet” would cause me cravings, and I’d end up eating more.

With luck, you’ll be one of these people who can partake of smaller amounts of carbs or sweetened drinks, and everything will be OK. If not – if you find yourself eating more on days you do that – maybe you’re one of those who have to be more strict.


#4

One can easily eat too much carbs using keto food and you inevitably will have much more carbs sometimes as you wrote… Well, whatever you woe will be, try to be as low with your carbs as you can (without too much difficulties but it’s individual how serious you are with this) and there is a chance it will be enough. I am not slim yet but I lost a significant amount of weight on low-carb with some extra rules and I can maintain on it. I needed keto for having a chance for more but not everyone has, we have our individual circumstances. Carbs happen to cause problems and ketosis isn’t enough, I need to go super low. But ketosis brought fat adaptation and that changed things and those benefits stayed with me even off keto (but not off low-carb, that wouldn’t be pretty. you probably should say goodbye to the woe that made you too fat. some people get away with being careful after losing the fat, some gain more muscles or get more active but we usually need to change how we eat to maintain and it’s often better for health too).

So… Maybe low-carb for life is enough for you. Maybe low-carb for fat-loss and some changes afterwards. You don’t seem to find keto awfully hard, it seems a very good idea to do it for a while. Whenever I make my woe stricter, my off times tend to go stricter too and it seriously lower the chance of overeating when I relax my ways.

Sweeteners work for some and not for others. I think it’s obviously advisable to avoid them if it’s not hard but if it helps you, try if it still works, I ate sweets all the time on keto myself (very good sweets, full with protein and nutrients and I never used much sweetener and worked on using less and less, then I started to make unsweetened desserts), it was that or no keto. But it’s in the past now. For fruit? I ate a super tiny amount of fruit each and every day. I still don’t think it caused any problems. The vegetables, the sweets, the added fat? Sure. But not 1-2g sugar from my fruits (not only berries, why would I restrict myself so, it makes no sense to me). Sometimes we need these mostly harmless crutches for a while or more. It works for some and not for others. I am not for unnecessarily restrictions. If someone can be super strict, great, it may be useful to try but not all of us can do it. I faced physical and mental problems when I went too far. But we can change eventually.

Amounts matter, of course. At least most of us can’t drop fat while getting all the energy and more they need from their food. It isn’t logical but maybe there is some magic in some cases. Not in mine for sure. I need to eat satiating food to avoid overeating. Keto can help a lot.

It’s very individual if carby days are safe or even possible and if we can stay there, tend to stay there, lose control or not at all… You can try what happens, no one can predict that. And maybe it would be a disaster now and no danger later, we can change too especially when we realize it’s our way and we want it. I am a hedonist but I can change for noble goals. I still stay a hedonist, I just want the right things. It’s cool.
Even if you never want to avoid the carby meals (if we really want it, we always can, except maybe some extreme cases), being strict on most days may help a lot. I realized that I can handle much more carbs just fine if it’s one occasion and the extra carbs don’t pile up day after day. Maybe you are the same. Maybe not. Sometimes we need to go cold turkey and sometimes it’s fine to relax but frequency and amount matters. I do the former with certain things and the latter with others, whatever works better.

It’s too complex… I say experiment with things and find your own way.


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #5

As you state, a ketogenic diet as not so much a quick weight-loss diet, but rather a permanent alteration in your eating habits. Its primary effect is the reversal of metabolic disease, and fat loss (if you have excess stored fat to shed) is a pleasant side-effect of the metabolic healing.

A well-formulated ketogenic diet is a low-glucose, low-insulin diet, because of the restriction of carbohydrate intake. Calorie-counting is not actually necessarily and can, in fact, cause your metabolism to slow down, if you restrict calories too much. The body adapts to the food we give it, and within certain very broad limits can adjust our metabolism up or down to compensate for our caloric intake. It is certainly true that the hormonal response to the foods we eat is far more significant than our actual caloric intake, but the metabolic response to a caloric deficit is likely to be to hang on to fat reserves, not shed them. Good Calories, Bad Calories, by Gary Taubes, and The Big Fat Surprise, by Nina Teicholz, go into the science of this in exhaustive detail, with numerous references to the primary literature.

Increasing exercise is not necessary and can, in fact, be stressful to the body during the initial couple of months after the shift to this way of eating. Give yourself time to adapt before returning to your exercise schedule. Exercise has been shown to be very unhelpful in terms of losing fat; it has many other benefits, however.

The point of not eating carbohydrate is that there is a threshold above which insulin gets stimulated and all the benefits of a ketogenic diet are put in abeyance at best, and at worst are reversed. Your carbohydrate tolerance may well be greater than the 20 g/day limit we advise, but you are better off, the lower you can keep your intake. Above your threshold, insulin rises to a level that is not healthful. Moreover, if your goal is fat loss, insulin is one of the most important of the hormones that cause the body to store and retain fat, so it is in general a very good idea to keep insulin as low as possible for as much of the day as possible. (We need a certain minimum in order to remain alive, but too much above that minimum is damaging to the body in many different ways.)

A day of higher carb intake here and there is probably not something to worry about, but carbohydrates can be addictive, and what we call “carb creep” happens all too easily. The harder you work to keep your carb intake as low as possible, the better off you are likely to be. Zero-sugar drinks can be helpful, if you need a crutch, but many people find themselves better off avoiding sweet tastes altogether (much as a sober alcoholic generally finds it advisable to stay away from non-alcoholic beer). There are also potential issues with most of the non-sugar sweeteners, not least being that they all appear to spike some people’s insulin. Whether a given sweetener will affect you is something that you can figure out only by trial and error.

As for how much to eat, eat to satisfy your hunger. Some days that will be a lot of food, other days, not so much. Don’t worry about it. In the absence of insulin, your appetite-control hormones (ghrelin and leptin are the major ones, but there are several others) will work better as a guide to how much to eat. One study I read showed that over any seven- or eight-day period, ad libitum food intake correlated astonishingly closely with energy expenditure. In general, most people can trust their appetite to lead them to eat enough food, but not too much. And if you have excess stored fat to shed, you will be satisfied with an amount of food that will allow both the fat you eat and some of that excess fat to be metabolised. I personally lost somewhere between 27 and 36 kg by not counting calories.

The last 15 kilos will take longer to come off than the first 150, so give the process plenty of time. Keep calm and keto on (KCKO), as we say! :+1: