Male, 69 years old, type 2 diabetic, 5’ 11", 100Kg
8 years ago I found some research from Newcastle Uni regarding VLC diets and type 2 diabetes to burn the intra cellulay fats in the liver and pancreas so I had a go using the Optifast plan.
It worked, dropped 18Kg in 7 weeks and came off all meds for over two years.
Slowly had to increase the meds over the next 6 years as I went back to my old eating habits but only put back 2 Kg.
Day 1, weight at 100kg
As my morning sugars were now around 9.8 - 10.2 I decided I had to do something about it so I restarted the optifast plan.
Bad mistake, I cant believe how appalling their products taste like now, the huge amounts of artificial sweetners leave a foul taste in my mouth so I stopped. (I’m sure they were not that sweet when I last used them)
I had heard of the ketogenic diet so basically followed that but with restricted calories in the 800 per day or lower range. Yes, very very low.
Day 8 Blood sugars have dropped to where I must reduce my meds, weight is now 92.1Kg
cant sleep, mouth foul, headaches, constipated and very bitchy and dont feel like eating and really really want to poop as I’m sure that will take the bloated pressure of my belly.
The lack of food is not worrying me I can handle that its the full up feeling I find difficult.
These are not really questions but some info would help
I expect all the answers are on this site but I couldnt find any succinct ones, if some one with better search fu can point me in the right direction please do.
Newb at day 9, sort of
I do not have a succint, single resource or single forum post to provide and none of us can give medical advice to you, however:
Constipation is a normal part of the transition. You’re asking your body to make big, good changes.
Artificial sweetners require caution and reactions are based on the individual. They can and do cause or compound intestinal issues, blood glucose issues and other problems. If you’re going to try fiber look on Amazon for plain psyllium husk powder and ease into using it - too much at the start will probably make your issues worse.
Some can handle dairy, some cannot or must limit it.
Drink Water. What works for me is 1/2 of my weight in oz. of water - every day. Getting up to the right amount of water can take time.
Watch out if someone suggests Magnesium citrate supplements, which can be used as a laxative. That’s because you may be one of the millions who are deficient in Magnesium and really need Magnesium Glycinate.
Spend a little time in the newbie and other forum areas. Listen to the Dude podcast, use your pal Google to search Dr. Fung and Dr. Phinney/Dr. Volek. Educate yourself.
Don’t fall for “Keto products” Eat real food.
800 cal. might be too low and without you posting any macros there is no way to tell if you’re generally too high or too low on fat, protein or carbs.
If you are starting or re-starting part of the problem is likely ‘keto flu’
Many of us are following the N=1, which is self-experimentation. It takes some time to figure this all out for one self. It pays off but you need to give yourself some time. It’s not a quick-fix, it’s a way of eating and a way of living. Best wishes.
This is the Newcastle starvationist approach as espoused by Taylor and Mosely and available in the Blood Sugar Diet book. There may or may not be some transformative benefit of the starvation aspect in terms of basal hormone secretion levels (a bit like that from bariatric surgery) but the vast majority of people do as well or better on a proper keto diet without the extreme calorie restriction.
At the very least you should switch to proper keto after the 8 weeks or else you’ll undo the good work as you did before.
IMHO Taylor & Mosely are making keto fringe, medicinal and unsustainable in the pursuit of avoiding the LCHF tag which is unnecessary and counterproductive when you see so many people succeed in a far more sustainable long term approach.
Welcome, Charles! I, like you, also read that study. For me it was in September of 2013. I did not use optifast, but I created a similar program. For 10 weeks, I ate 800 calories per day, but totally low carb. I went from 235 lbs to 195 lbs in that time. I stayed low carb, but thought I was largely cured. Carbs crept up later and I gained 60 pounds!
You are in the right place now. The Newcastle study is really just step one in understanding this disease. You can and will succeed with the ketogenic diet. It is a longterm commitment that you won’t regret. However, I would advise against calorie restricting with it. I did it, and it worked, but I also borked my metabolism. I recommend fasting and feasting periods now. It’s what I am doing. I do two 5-day fasts per month. Next month, I will add alternate-day fasting (only eating on Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday). When I eat, I eat a lot. I don’t let my metabolism die off from calorie restriction.
I am slowly boosting my calories up using keto foods.
Diabetes Australia in their last news letter published more research on the Newcastle study spruiking its benefits which was also a push to start again. It appears its now being touted to most new and old patients as a management system to come off the meds.
I think I will wait till I reach 86Kg which at the present rate will be 2 more weeks max then go over to full keto meals and hope I can stay on it.
At the moment I would kill for some hot buttered toast and marmalade even though my stomach has shrunk and I cannot eat much.
Last night was a killer, I broke my back in the 70’s and all the pain came flowing back as if I had been heavy lifting all day (which I never do) and I had to dose up on pain killers to get to sleep. Havnt had to do that for years.
When you get into a ketogenic way of eating where you’re not depriving yourself (eating plenty and never hungry), I hope you will celebrate, like so many others, the absence of pain! This WOE does so much good in that respect. Look forward to the many healing aspects of keto. Welcome aboard!
I am at the watershed today.
3 days of nausea, zero energy, cant think straight, weak, and full on general malaise.
Very difficult raising the inclination to get out of bed.
The smell of food makes me want to vomit, the taste of food does the same I have no interest in eating anything so every meal is a full on struggle. I’m not even hungry.
I’m trying to eat full keto now but the above shows how difficult it is.
I dont think I can continue as I am so miserable and down.
The good bits.
weight down to 91.6, blood sugars are awesome and I’ve had to stop one of the diabetic meds.
Greadually take in a little more food, and be sure to keep your salt intake high. I’m sorry you’re struggling this way! If you can slowly get your system to accept food again, you’ll feel much better. Eating keto will keep your blood sugar down and help you continue to lose without starving yourself. Please keep checking in; we’re concerned for you.
Update, I got very sick almost to the point of visiting the hospital. I didnt need to as by then my food intake was better.
I’m still on one diabetic med and sugars are fine.
I’m eating keto, but, I’m not following a diet plan just as low as possible to no carbs or sugar etc.
Feel heaps better so now its time to start measuring the portion sizes as I believe I am eating too much protein.
Weight has plateaued so tis time to get back to real work.
I, too have a hard time with eating too much protein. The last “successful” diet I was on, I could eat a full 8 ounces of chicken breast at a meal. Of course, I was also eating carbs, never completely lost my sugar cravings, and slowed my metabolism way down, so it all came back on. Now I make sure to eat plenty of healthy fat and enough calories to keep my BMR up. My hubby is going low carb, too, but I’m worried he’s not eating enough fat (he’s on the road in our truck and I’m home, so I can’t help him as well as I’d like). We shall see!
So glad to get an update! And that you are feeling better! Be sure to keep eating enough.
Quick update
blood ketones 2.7
Blood glucose 6.6
weight 93,5kg
not happy, weight was dropping then stalled, blood glucose was dropping then went back to 6 - 6.8
Still on 2x1000 metformin only a day so thats a goodie.
I’m eating virtually no carbs so am still full keto, diet is full keto
Today was just a bullet proof coffee, around 20 grams peanuts no breakfast no lunch and still bg 6.2, I expected lower.
I;m not hungry and not craving carbs so thats a bonus.
I can eat butter as if its icecream
Why peanuts? There are so many other lower carb & higher fat nuts to choose. And why so low on calories? You need to 1) eat close to your TDEE each day or 2) fast, one or the other. BPC is considered acceptable on a fat fast in most cases, so you could keep that and dump the peanuts & you have basically a plan for a 24-hour fast.
However, I suggest that you re-learn to EAT first. You should probably be eating upwards of 2000 kcal a day for your size, maybe more. At least 1400 of those 2000 kcal should come from fat. Do it in either 3 sittings or 2 - NO SNACKING. Have you visited the keto calculator referenced in the “newbies” section? DO IT.
You will continue to struggle with BG and not losing weight until you quit trying to follow previous norms for diet, ie., calorie restriction and reduced fat. Your metabolism is deranged, and it can’t “un-derange” until you feed your body enough calories to keep your energy levels up and hunger satiated while your carbs are low. This is the ONLY way your body will truly become adapted to fat for energy.
Latest update.
Still following keto, good cholesterol up into the healthy mark, bad cholesterol way down, BG stable around 6, weight plateaued at 94/95 Kg. Feeling great all round.
I’m definitely still eating too much protein as I dont weight anything before hand.
As I’ve now emptied the freezer I can get down to planning my meals like I should have at the start.
I thought I would do an update.
I’m now 71 and was in keto for 2 years, all was well, bloods etc very good.
Weight had stalled around 93Kg but that was all.
Then came this christmas and it all went out the window, I cooked up a storm of traditional yummies, it was a fantastic carb binge that carried on till a week ago.
Weight went up to102kg, blood sugars averaging 10+ so obviously its gotta be back to keto.
Two weeks now and weight is back down to 94Kg, bloods down to 6.3.
Now the down side, I cannot eat three meals a day.
Breakfast large cup of bulletproof coffee with butter, coconut oil and heaps of cream and thats it till dinner.
I dont feel hungry. Occasionally I may have a light snack around 4pm
Exercise is difficult with knees, hips and back problems preventing a lot.
I would kill for real bread, the sugar cravings I can tolerate easily but they wont go away. The only artificial sweetner in in my Coles diet tonic water taken with lemon juice and sometimes gin. (well ok, often gin:rofl:)
Meals contain heaps of veges, small amount of meat, chicken fish etc heaps of olive oil and butter.
I’m sick of the grittiness of psylium husk (sp?) and other added fibres, flax meal has a weird unpleasant taste for me.
Surely after all this time there is a real recipe for a decent keto bread substitute that has taste and doesnt taste of egg.