New to site - keto adapted but with questions

#21

I don’t know about a full explanation but this paper shows the numbers going up and down throughout each 24-hour period: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5097355/

Phinney/Volek have the green and yellow "The Art and Science low carb … Living " book - but they also have “The art and science … Performance”. This 2nd book talks more about ketone fluctuations in athletic people and might provide you with information you’re seeking? I have both books and glad to have both (actually I also have their “Atkins the new you” book, not so much science, more about food … Glad I have all three.

I wouldn’t say 0.3 means you have necessarily fallen out of ketosis. 0 yes but not 0.3 mM

(Karim Wassef) #22

Thanks! That was an interesting paper. It does show the normal expectation of a cyclic ketone level revolving around food and gradually growing through the day then dropping with each meal. That’s the normal fluctuation and used to be my baseline.

I’m now seeing this morning peak that drops throughout the day- so the inverse.

(Karim Wassef) #23

So I think I figured this out after collecting a LOT of glucose and ketone data…
Apparently, my body is actively reacting to my own habits. It’s actively using my history of behavior to optimize my ketone and glucose levels!
This goes beyond just the hunger “alarm clock” that is set to the last time I ate. This spans days and weeks of recorded behavior and seems to be accurate down to the average hour.
I have no idea how it’s doing this, but my regular calendar of behavior is reflected in my body’s timing of my metabolism… I switched it around and I got it to mess up!

I usually eat Saturday to Tuesday and fast Wed-Thurs-Fri and I usually eat at 6:30pm when I do (once a day). I also usually go to the gym at noon instead of lunch since I OMAD. So I tricked it by eating on my fasting days and fasting on my eating days. When I eat on fasting days, it misses the mark and my glucose (usually 85 after eating) rockets to 110. When I fast on eating days, my ketones that are usually around 1.2-1.5 drop to 0.5-0.8 because it thinks I’m going to eat and make it up.

I even took multiple readings very close to each other around the window of my eating… At 4:30, my ketones were 1.2…at 5:30, my ketones were 1.3… but at 6:30 (just before when I would eat), my ketones dropped to 0.7 (without any activity or exercise)… then after a few hours of not eating, it went back to 1.2… basically it gave up on me eating…

I think the only way to keep it from “optimizing” my energy use is to constantly fool and trick it so it stops trying to be so conservative and give me the ketones I want. It may be similar to muscle confusion in lifting - where regular training routines basically get less effective. Even my fasting routine needs to not be routine.

I’m fascinated and thought I’d share. :smiley:

(Running from stupidity) #24

Which is why we always say to mix it up. Don’t fall into a pattern.

(Karim Wassef) #25

Sure but I didn’t expect it to span days and weeks… I expected body memory for hours in a day based on the research and usually only associated with eating. I also expected it to only trigger hunger hormones not actively change ketone and glucose levels.

I can’t find research that lines up with my experience yet but at least now I know what to look for.