New Paul Mason CVD video

(Michael) #21

There are free converters online, but I have never used them, so I do not have a particular recommendation. Worth listening too though, so I hope you can figure it out.

(Bob M) #22

I finally watched this. I see that he says that saturated fat does not necessarily raise LDL, but instead that seed oils lower LDL (mainly? solely?) due to plant sterols.

I see his concerns about coconut oil, but I like coconut. There are only so many things we can be afraid of.

(Bob M) #24

The problems I have with this video include the following. Let’s say everything he says is true.

  1. How much PUFA do you need to have as an intake? You MUST eat PUFA, because any meat will have PUFA.

  2. If PUFA is causative for heart disease, why do some people not get heart disease while eating the same amount of PUFA as others?

(Geoffrey) #25

Because everyone is different?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #26

For one thing, the polyunsatrates in meats are ones we’ve adapted to over a couple of million years. The PUFA’s in the industrial seed oils, however, have been in the food supply for no longer than 120 years or so. Even olive oil has been a foodstuff for only about 500 years. Until then, it was a lamp fuel and a cosmetic.

So I would guess that the answer to your second question is that (a) Geoffrey is right about individual variation, and (b) some people eat species-appropriate PUFA’s and others do not. Another possible part of the explanation may be that they also eat a better ratio of ω-3 fats to ω-6 fats. How you would go about a study to confirm or deny any of this is beyond me, however.

(Michael) #27

It has gotten big to look at the amount of PUFA is your cells using blood test https://omegaquant.com/. Even if someone eats as little PUFA as possible, they still end up with 10% linoleic fats in cell membranes.

@ctviggen
Vitamin E stops the chain reaction of PUFA oxidation, which might account for difference in oxidation. However, vitamin E has not shown clinical benefit, so perhaps the argument is spurious.

(KM) #28

This would be an interesting test to take over time. How long does it take to replace blood volume? I also wonder what “as little as possible” actually means. I never eat PUFAs. I think. I say. Beyond anything in my grass fed beef and butter and so on. But the other day I had a shrimp salad in a restaurant. With a lovely avocado dressing. Which was probably 100% vegetable oil based. Sneaks up on you.

(Bob M) #29

A PUFA is a PUFA. Linoleic acid is Linoleic acid no matter if you get it from eating pork or chicken, or from soybean oil.

Edit: Paul, maybe your argument is that we’re eating PUFAs other than linoleic acid. But pretty much everyone who is a PUFA hater concentrates on linoleic acid, maybe because it’s the easiest to overeat. For instance, this blog post about how bad PUFA has become in bacon:

This difference exists in what we’re feeding animals like pigs and chickens (corn) and how much PUFA there is (everything prepared has PUFA in it, seed oils). I saw one study that was looking at the saturated fat in pork and chickens on an island, and the amount of saturated fat in the chicken was astoundingly high, like 80+ %. Compare that with chicken feed today, which has a lot of PUFA in it, because they apparently found that PUFAs make chickens grow faster.

@Naghite When I went on my very high saturated fat diet, I got the omega quant done. My saturated fat level was through the roof. But my O6/O3 was still terrible, and I avoid seed oils like the plague. The problem is that chicken and pork can be high PUFA. Unless you want to switch to all ruminants (goat, beef, lamb, etc.), and then only grass fed versions of those, you’re looking at a poor O6/O3 ratio.

The other thing to do is increase O3 (since it’s a ratio) by eating fish, taking supplements, etc. I’m just not a huge fan of fish.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #30

You have a point, Bob, but I stand by my point that the new PUFA’s in industrial seed oils are still not goofd for us. To the extent that a seed oil contains the same PUFA(s) available in ancestral foods, that is not a problem.

(Bob M) #31

I think that’s true. I think it’s a tough one, though, because Brad (from Fire in a Bottle) says that chicken feed has grains with a lot of PUFA in them. So, even if you’re raising your own chickens, you would be raising them to be higher in PUFA than, say, chickens that eat bugs and whatever they can find.

I was looking at my dog’s dry food. Even the ones that are supposedly fish have higher O6 than O3. How is that possible?

(KM) #32

Funny, I was just wondering that very thing: do fish / shellfish have the ability to hydrolize dietary fat like ruminants do or are they, too, doomed to simple pack on the fat profile of whatever they’re fed, if they’re fed??

(Edith) #33

Yeah, well, do you really know how much actual fish is in the dog kibble?

(Bob M) #34

Well, I’m buying part raw part kibble. The first ingredients are fish. Even with that, there’s still a higher O6 to O3.

(Bob M) #35

I believe they also are what they eat. Or at least there are people who say we should not eat farmed fish. Whether these ideas are true or not, I don’t know.

(KM) #36

Or maybe how much dog kibble is in the fish.

(Bob M) #37

I also wonder if it’s the fish they’re using. The omega 3 values go from high to poor:

Here’s the one I was looking at:

image

Fish, fish, oatmeal (really?), barley (really?), sunflower oil (ugh!), salmon, …

We feed our pup mainly raw food, but she does get some kibble, which we also use for training.

(Anthony G) #38

So… whole avocados are rich in plant sterol beta sisterol… are whole avocados pro atherogenic… we need a definitive answer.

(KM) #39

No.

Well, that was definitive, anyway! :rofl:

Sometimes I think the more I learn the less I know. I don’t have an actual answer for you, but welcome to the forums!

(Michael) #40

Almost nothing is definitive in nutrition. Putting that aside, avocados also have large amounts of vitamin E. so if parts of the avocado are atherogenic, other parts are protective. The general consensus is that avocados overall are healthy, but not every iota of a healthy food need be completely without any possible negative components.