New keto study (mice), improves neuropathy from metabolic syndrome

allodynia
neuropathy
#1

This is only an abstract, gotta pay for full text. They refer to ketogenic diets as separate from mice fed a “high-fat” diet, so I assume the latter were not carb-restricted, but it’s unclear from the abstract.

(Omar) #2

So this means high fat is not ketogenic diet.

(Ron) #3

I agree with you, what the fuck is their definition of the Ketogenic Diet?:weary:

The conclusion is good but I sure don’t see how they arrived at it.:thinking:

" results suggest a ketogenic diet can prevent certain complications of prediabetes and provides significant benefits to peripheral axons and sensory dysfunction."

(Omar) #4

Being able to cure (reverse ) mechanical allodynia or prepheral nurves sensitivity in general is really something I observed being type 2.

I wish my mother listens to me as allodynia is making her life miserable.

(Ron) #5

I hope to be there one day. Since Keto I have seen the dry skin and soreness on my feet clear up some so I think the healing process is heading in the right direction but the tingling and numbness seems a little worse lately. @Brenda said Keto cured hers but it got worse before it got better so I am hoping this is the case.

(Omar) #6

I hope you will get better

The cracks in my heel got much better but every once in awhile I get the tingling sensation. The frequency is no near preketo. I may get the tingling in my heel cracks once a month after keto.

I tend to think of the healing caused by the reduced insulin rather than low carbs. So if someone is insulin resistance, even after starting keto, it will take time to heal insulin resistance before seeing the improvement which is the subject of the study.

According to Dr Fung the healing time depends on how long one metabolism was wreked.

For me I have type 2 for about 5 years.

(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #7

I think I had diagnosed T2DM for 11 years, but of course the insulin resistance started way before that.

#8

Yeah, it reminded me of Dr. Bikman’s talk at LCDU where he talks about how in rats, in order to put them in a ketogenic state, their carb intake must be restricted much more even than in humans, down to 1% I believe. These are mice, I’ll bet the high-fat group just wasn’t restricted enough, but there’s no way to tell from the abstract, unfortunately.

I was also curious about their report that “when a ketogenic diet was used as an intervention, a ketogenic diet was unable to reverse high-fat fed-induced metabolic changes…”. Makes me wonder how long the study ran. Obviously, mice are not humans, but it seems reversing metabolic changes from previous WOEs is a pretty common experience in humans on keto.

(Justin Jordan) #9

High fat diets for lab mice are fairly standardized, and are usually high in carbs as well.

#10

You’re right. These same authors had a previous paper (citation below) where they did not work with ketogenic diets, only the high-fat diet, and since the full text is available I was able to see what the high-fat diet was. It had 24% carbs.

Cooper MA, Ryals JM, Wu PY, Wright KD, Walter KR, Wright DE. Modulation of diet-induced mechanical allodynia by metabolic parameters and inflammation. Journal of the peripheral nervous system : JPNS. 2017;22(1):39-46. doi:10.1111/jns.12199.

(Todd Allen) #11

Science pirates don’t.
http://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.expneurol.2018.05.011

#12

Wow, I’m impressed! Nice job, Cap’n Todd!

I guess the intervention part of the study ran 12 weeks, and it appears true they didn’t see the metabolic improvements they expected. I could be wrong, but just working based on my memory of the studies I’ve seen, I feel like more positive results with keto seem to occur in rats than in mice, which could point to some important differences between the two and their applicability to humans.

(mole person) #13

Yay! Thank you!

(Todd Allen) #14

Redirect any respect to Alexandra Elbakyan. I think of her as the Khazakhstan version of the Flashdance story, except instead of welder by day she is a computer scientist and instead of dancing her second passion is neurobiology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra_Elbakyan

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #15

For that, we’ll need to see the full text, in order to get an idea of what the high-fat and the ketogenic diets comprised. They will likely give the formulas of the chows they fed the different groups of mice, or we could go to the manufacturer’s site and download the ingredients.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #16

I don’t read Russian, so what do I put in the box, to get the study to load?

(Doug) #17

Paul, type in the characters you see above the box. It’s just trying to make sure you’re not a bot.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #18

Thanks, Doug. Will have to try later. I think I’m locked out, because now all I get is a screen with the main portion blank.