New - Ideas for Dropping Dairy and Fasting

mentalhealth
fasting
#1

Hi there!

I’ve been keto for 4 weeks, and I have a couple of questions about my experience. Just a little information: I’ve done a lot of low carb and cutting certain foods, because I feel better when I don’t eat them. Obviously, that leaves a hole in my diet so eventually, that led to keto. I suffer from depression and anxiety and it helps reduce the endless fatigue I get. I’m female, I’m not overweight, as far as I know I’m not TOFI. I probably do have adrenal fatigue from mental health issues, though. I have put on a bit of weight due to taking medication, which I’d like to lose. I’m pretty sedentary during the day, but I do HIIT exercise up to 6 days a week on average, for about an hour a day. I also walk everywhere. I also take magnesium, potassium, and my sleep is mostly okay.

My first question is that my appetite has vanished, but I’m a little concerned about fasting this early in the whole process. I seem to alternate between days when I get hungry and days when I can just go the whole day without food. Having done a fair bit of reading around, I was worried it might be too early to fast, even it just happened that way.

The second is that I think I’m going to have to drop dairy. Having had digestion issues with carbs resolved, I can now tell I’ve got problems with dairy as well. Very sad, because I love cheese. This isn’t so much a question as a commiseration - unless you have some great alternatives to cheese, butter, and Marmite, which is a quick treat I use when I’m hungry and don’t have much time.

I’ve been really enjoying the forum and the podcasts - keep it up guys, you are all awesome.

Razorjack

#2

Hello and welcome! I wouldn’t worry too much about your eating habits. Simple rule of thumb is to eat when you’re hungry, don’t eat when you’re not. Your body will let you know when you need food. It takes a bit to get used to at first as we’ve all become so accustomed to eating every 2-3 hours that anything outside of that range seems abnormal.

You’re not alone with needing (or wanting) to limit your dairy intake. I’m a huge fan of dairy, so not a great help on alternative snacks, but checkout the Zero Carb category for some ideas that don’t include dairy.

Calling on @Daisy for some tips on a no, or limited, dairy approach, please! :blush:

#3

Wow, thank you! Yes, it’s a real lifestyle change, although since most of my friends have odd food requirements, nobody minds. I used to do 5:2 and found fasting like that really beneficial, but obviously, changing diet and not being fat adapted yet, I didn’t want to push things too far.

#4

The main thing is to just do what works for you. By all means try new foods, eating times and periods, etc., however it really all comes back to what your body decides it needs. What works for you may not work for others and vice versa. Sounds like you’re doing great so far!! :+1:

#5

Dr, Eric Westman says, “eat when hungry, drink when thirsty”. Yeah, if you’re not hungry, don’t eat, but don’t push it too far if you’re really suffering after skipping a meal.

Sigh, yes I love some dairy and I sympathize, so my current solution is just limiting dairy.

I replaced milk with a coconut/almond milk blend by Califia which is pretty good and reduce using creamer with Thai Organic Coconut Milk because it is pretty thick, but I still use some heavy cream and definitely sour cream. I tried replacing butter with ghee, but use far more butter than ghee.

Welcome and glad to have you here!

#6

Thanks for the tag @KetoKate

OK so my thoughts would be very similar - just go with how you feel. If you have days when you don;t feel like eating - don’t. It is going to be better for you to have this fast/feast pattern than consistently not eating much daily. It could work really, really well for you. I would recommend journalling how you feel - nothing epic (although go for it if you have the time and inclination) just a quick note as to how hungry you were that day, what you ate (or not) and how you feel at the end of that. Some people slip into fat adaptation pretty fast and the fact that you are a hot exercise chick might have made the transition faster for you.

Dairy. Oh boy. I feel your pain. Now when it comes to dairy it might not be the end of days. The very best way to test it fro sure is to complete eliminate it form your diet for 30 days. 2 weeks will do at a push (me!). Then you can test it by adding it back.
Dairy intolerance/sensitivity is split really between milk proteins and lactose. It can get way more complicated but that is basically it. Or you could be both.
Now if you discover it is the lactose then there is hope in sight because there is actually a lot of stuff that is zero carb - butter, parmesan, a lot of the aged cheeses and blues. There are different levels of sensitivity for different people. You might find that mostly eliminating and then sticking with zero for a while will then enable you to go to a higher lactose level occasionally without great issue. You may have a higher level to start with - say <1 - more cheese opens up to you! Get used to looking at packets and comparing brands as there is a lot of variance.
For some, the fermented dairy products are kinder to their systems so they will find they are fine with things like Greek yoghurt and Kefir but cream, no, although the lactose levels are similar.
If you are in the mil protein camp then you are a bit screwed re dairy TBH. You MIGHT find that you are better with goat and sheep cheese but unlikely.
You may of course purely be sensitive to cow milk in which case goat and sheep will be fine. I have a friend like this. She cannot eat too much and will then still react but she can at least have some. If you are purely in the lactose camp there is also a product you can take which enables your body to digest the lactose (that is the problem) and therefore negate the problem. It would probably be a ball ache to do that all the time but great of you had a particular creamy splurge in mind!

I hope that helps. My advice is to completely cut it for a period of time and then test to work out what your level and area of sensitivity is. I am guessing lactose actually - one because it is really common but two because you would be having way worse issue if it was an intolerance. I think. Test to be sure. And let us know how you go.

In fact, you may want to drill down to a basic elimination diet for a month and then test multiple things because it could be something sneaky like nightshades rather than the dairy at all. Just a thought?

#7

Thank you both @Daisy and @BillJay for your advice! That is so helpful.

I’m going to take your advice to eliminate dairy altogether. This morning I had cheese and butter for breakfast and the reaction was so bad, there’s no way I even want to eat any more (me? Not want cheese?). I knew I had problems if I had too much, but without carbs, it’s more obvious that this is a problem.

I’m going to follow Billjay’s advice and replace with coconut cream for at least 30 days then try adding back. I get the impression from what I’ve experienced that very small amounts of cheese are okay, but the last few weeks as I get used to keto, I’ve had way more than I can handle.

I do try to limit my protein intake - I listened to the podcast about protein and some of the reading around it, and it felt to me like the best thing to do was to keep it down.

I’ll report back to see how this n=1 goes. Bye bye cheese!

#8

Seriously though, if it is lactose then there is still a lot of cheese and butter that you can freely eat. I have drilled down to 0 carb (one <traces) and I am fine. I have parmesan, two blue cheeses and a goat cheese in my fridge. Yummy! and butter naturally :wink:

#9

Let’s cross fingers it’s lactose! I’m also going to try getting to zero carb. It’s a sort of psychological test, because of all that time we’ve had it drilled into us that veggies are the way to go.

(betsy.rome) #10

Is there a reliable medical test for lactose intolerance? or is that done by eliminating from diet only.

#11

Personally, I think exclusion/elimination is the gold standard way to test. Plus it’s free! Plus you give your digestive system a much needed rest in the exclusion period. Wins on all levels IMO.

I think there are tests but I don’t know how reliable they are.

#12

Are you male or female? What are your weight goals?

Kepe an eye on your overall weekly deficit and what the scale is doing; if it starts to get too extreme you may need to add more calorically dense food or more food in general.

#13

I make a nondairy creamer that has been a godsend. In a blender, I put one egg, slowly add one can of full fat coconut milk and 2 ounces MCT oil and let it blend for a minute or so. You can add a splash of vanilla and a bit of cinnamon if you like. The egg acts as an emulsifier and it mixes easily not my coffee.

(Todd Allen) #14

One thing of possible interest for those who think they might have a problem with casein is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A2_milk

I’ve heard of but never seen A2 products like cheese and ice cream, so for the moment the easiest thing to do is probably try sheep or goat milk products as previously suggested, but perhaps A2 is or will become a solution for some.

#16

As I said, I’m female, so I’m aware dairy is an issue for a lot of us. I don’t really have weight goals because I’m within normal BMI. I did put on weight because of medication, though, so I was trying to shed a bit of that.

#17

That sounds amazing, and like you could use it as a snack if you wanted a bit of a top up. Thank you! I’m going to try that.

(Dee Ann Higgins) #18

Thank you for the recipe! I have been trying to decrease my dairy and this sounds like a solution!

#19

A couple of us are eliminating dairy for the next month if you’re interested in joining us. Anyone want to join me in 30 days dairy free?