New article on keto

(chris) #1

I am really tired of the negative articles on keto. Everyone I know seems to see these but never the positive ones and will quote to me how keto is bad, you should not do keto for more than 3 months yada yada yada. I would really like to see this one picked apart like previous studies/articles. https://dlife.com/expert-advise-unraveling-the-keto-diet-from-a-diabetes-educators-perspective/

(Trish) #2

Sorry I stopped reading when she started on keto causing kidney failure. I think I will believe Dr. Fung an actual nephrologist over a dietician.

(BuckRimfire) #3

Exactly! One of the biggest keto advocates is literally a kidney doctor. Not a sign that itā€™s likely to cause kidney problems. And didnā€™t Fung get into low carb kinda accidentally because it helped his patients with kidney trouble? Somebody correct me if Iā€™m remembering that wrong!

Admittedly, in one of the Virta videos, I remember Sarah Hallberg saying they did check peopleā€™s kidney tests and some fraction (5%?) had some response required, but I canā€™t recall all the details.

(PJ) #4

The modern very-public reminder and promotion of lowcarb was initially from Atkins, a cardiologist, who didnā€™t want his obese heart patients keeling over and wanted them to lose weight FAST.

He was followed in low-carb public promotion greatly by the Drs. Eades ā€“ endocrinologists, which means people who specialize in things like obesity, diabetes, etc.

Dr. Fung is a nephrologist, and specifically worked with patients at late-stage kidney disease who were on dialysis, nearly all of whom were diabetic. He got tired of them dying instead of getting better. He will openly say in lectures, in referring to some past patients (many of whom are still currently with him) that he treated them ā€˜improperlyā€™ in the past (when he was doing what he was taught in medical school) but after changing his approach they dramatically improved.

Many of the most influential names in low-carb or semi-low-carb approaches in the last 50 years have been physicians of one kind or another, often specialists, and sometimes people who had a condition (such as diabetes) themselves.

(BuckRimfire) #5

It seems like many of the MDs who are on-board realized there was a problem when the conventional wisdom didnā€™t work for them. Itā€™s harder for the lucky few (like me), who can eat anything and not gain weight, to realize that lack of compliance with low-fat or eat-less-move-more is not the problem for most people.

Impressive thing about Eric Westman and, IIRC, also Fung is that they didnā€™t struggle with their own weight, and came to low-carb through intellectual honesty.

(Katie) #6

Remember, half of everyone with metabolic disorders (including T2D) are not overweight.

High fructose is in everything now. It causes fatty liver (regardless of how slim you are) which is the beginning of every other modern metabolic disorder.

(Patrick) #7

Anytime something becomes popular, there are going to be those people that want to suggest that itā€™s not all itā€™s cracked up to be for the clicks. This is especially true for dietary subjects that are already hugely controversial; not to mention how alien a Keto WOE is to the vast majority of people (understandably). Itā€™s easy money for the journalists. Weā€™re not going to stop that, and itā€™s only going to get worse.

Our Ace card is the wonderful doctors and researchers that we have who have put in the hard work and proven this WOE. You canā€™t dispute hard science with anything other than hard science, so bring it on!

(PJ) #8

Agreed. I think it is very, very difficult ā€“ in the cognitive dissonance area ā€“ for any doctor to realize that (a) they donā€™t know everything after all that schooling and work and (b) they may have directly contributed to the misery and death of their patients for years. That last part isā€¦ gutting.

(KCKO, KCFO šŸ„„) #9

Some of Virta clients are using them as a last ditch effort, probably had issues going into the program.

I just donā€™t even read the other crap articles anymore. Not going to rent them any space in my brain anymore, after over 3 years with this WOE, I know it works long term for me. Others might have issues but it helps me, doesnā€™t hurt me, so no interest in doing anything else.

(Scott) #10

It is the typical peppering of the it ā€œmayā€ it ā€œcanā€ and no one knows (insert scary music) what the long term effects etc. Followed by libel use of fad, restrictive and unsustainable. The only thing missing was the a vegan diet slant is healthier.

I laughed out loud at the ā€œone person had a quadruple bypass after being on the keto diet for two yearsā€. I was like, I wonder what they ate over the last 20 years. Show me a cardiologist that will agree that your diet over two years is responsible for coronary heart disease. ā€œgee doc I started eating junk food two years ago, that must have been itā€

Most people go to a keto WOE to correct something. Is is not the norm in my opinion that people at a proper weight and in normal health suddenly change their WOE. I was overweight but never even thought about checking blood glucose or A1C. I did find out that skin tags (which I have) are a bad sign after the fact.

(KetoQ) #11

I read through and came to the conclusion that articles like this are a waste. The ignorance of these so called experts is astounding.

Rather than refute this for you, I believe it is important that you educate yourself.

I am where I am now because of lots of independent research, trial and error, and questioning things, even those that I believe to be true. I even question the idea of low carb. It needs to stand up to the science.

And donā€™t be baffled by peopleā€™s bullshit, both pro-keto and anti-keto. Dig deeper to understand, rationalize and question and rethink your ideas on health and nutrition.

Good luck and good health.

(Bob M) #12

Low carb has quite a bit of science behind it:

Then again, shouldnā€™t low fat have that, since they decided to have all of us on it?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #13

Likewise Phinney and Volek.

(Robert C) #14

I do not agree with the article but I would like to point out that (I am pretty sure) there are doctors / nutritionists etc. out there that have to deal with Keto as a misunderstood ā€œfadā€ diet.

In other words, people not reading in this forum and that havenā€™t read a good book on Keto just hearing part of the message - bacon and eggs for breakfast, sausage for lunch and Ribeye for dinner. Then they think ā€œI ate a good Keto meal - Iā€™ll reward myself with some ice creamā€ (just like when people go to fast food, order a burger, order a diet coke and think ā€œI was good about getting a DIET coke - I guess I could allow myself some friesā€). They think it is the food instead of the hormonal changes intended by certain foods.

I think Keto, if you donā€™t know the goal is ketosis, and you go off of food lists, go by what your Keto friends ate and only hear the things you want to hear like ā€œfat bombsā€, ā€œwhiskeyā€, ā€œbutter coffeeā€ and lots of fatty meat. I think it could be a disaster if accompanied by lots of hidden carbs, unbroken bad snacking habits or just ā€œtrying Keto mealsā€ along with SAD meals.

Maybe thatā€™s the problem - right out of the title of the link ā€œKeto Dietā€ (implying eat certain things traditionally thought of as heart stopping) vs. ā€œThe Keto Way Of Eatingā€ (implying ingesting adequate calories with so few carbs that fat burning is induced).

(Diane Dupree-Dempsey) #15

The article lost me as soon as I read ā€œunsustainableā€, and ā€œthe weight comes back when you go off the dietā€. Seriously?

No one says Weight Watchers doesnā€™t work because you gain any weight lost back if you stop doing WW. No one says WW is not sustainable even though most people on WW end up gaining their weight back or at the very least cheating on the diet. Why are those objections reserved for Keto?

This WOE is far more sustainable than any other in my experience. And if I go back to eating SAD OF COURSE I will gain the weight back. No diet works if you are not actually doing it! Duh!

#16

Definitely. In nearly five decades of trying to lose weight, Iā€™ve never lasted longer than 6 months on any other diet. And only that long because I was taking appetite suppressants. Ones now banned by the FDA. But, eventually, feeling of deprivations would lead to cheats, cheats would lead to binges, and binges would lead right back to old eating habits. And old results. With the Yo-Yo effect, worse results than before.

Iā€™ve been doing keto for nearly 3 years now. One big advantage for me is that Iā€™m no longer ravenously hungry all the time. If I do cheat here or there, it doesnā€™t go any further.

My biggest problem these days is unlearning all of those bad habits I learned over those decades of compulsive overeating. Especially regarding habitual eating, portion sizes, and stopping when Iā€™m no longer hungry.

(Bob M) #17

Iā€™m almost 6 year low carb/keto and still struggle with this. Iā€™ll look at something and think it has too much fat. Iā€™ll look at vegetables (especially the highly colored ones) and think theyā€™re healthy, when Iā€™ve come full circle and actually think they might be bad for us. Iā€™ll look at something with probiotics (yogurt, fermented vegetables, etc.) and think it must be good for me, even though Iā€™ve spent a lot of time trying probiotics, yogurts, prebiotics, with no benefits and many detriments (take 4 tablespoons of potato starch sometime; and for me raw sauerkraut tastes great but wreaks havoc with my system). And Iā€™ll look at what Iā€™m eating and say, ā€œBoy, that seems like a lot. Should I really be eating this much?ā€

Luckily, Iā€™ve learned to ignore my inner monologue.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #18

Andreas Eenfeldt says he heard about this new thing called ā€œshoweringā€ thatā€™s really good at getting you clean. But it doesnā€™t work. Once you stop, you get dirty all over again. . . . :rimshot:

(Empress of the Unexpected) #19

I read the whole thing. I am somewhat of a rubber-necker. But I am also the word and grammar police so found it amusing that one was counseled to eat beans AND legumes. Seriously?

(Diane Dupree-Dempsey) #20

I totally agree - this is one of the best things about keto - not being hungry all the time!!!