I believe in keto, but I had a bad experience. If I figure out why keto didn’t work for me, maybe I’ll figure out what is wrong with me. Some facts:
Tried keto 3 years ago
Trust me that I did it correctly, Read extensively, I got a keto meter, drank the water, tried the electrolytes, attended a keto conference, etc.
I had a few fleeting tastes of those fabulous positive keto effects (WOW!), but otherwise, I was crashed out. Zero energy.
Gave it a good, long trial (more than enough to be over keto flu) but had to stop as I couldn’t function. - I didn’t go back to my normal self after I stopped keto.
My question is this. Why would someone be damaged by keto? I came up with hemochromatosis (a condition where you overload iron) but my test results do show that I have this (but I’m going to look into this further).
Any ideas?
I’m female, 61, I have hot flashes, so maybe there’s something hormonal involved.
Thanks in advance for helping with my fishing expedition.
I’m sorry you had a bad experience the first time around. Here are some thoughts:
The lack of energy sounds as though you weren’t eating enough, particularly not enough fat. The biological basis of a ketogenic diet lies in the body’s hormonal response to the foods we eat.
There are two primary hormones that regulate the body’s metabolic balance. They are insulin and glucagon. As long as the ratio of insulin to glucagon is low, the body is in fat-burning, ketogenic mode. But when insulin rises and glucagon does not, that puts us in sugar-burning, fat-storing mode.
Carbohydrate, being nothing but glucose, raises our blood sugar and provokes an insulin response, while inhibiting the glucagon response. The insulin drives the excess glucose out of our blood and into muscles (where it gets metabolised) and into adipose tissue (where it is stored as fat). This means that to keep our insulin/glucagon ratio low, we need to eat no more than a small amount of carbohydrate, so as to minimise our insulin and maximise our glucagon.
The effect of protein on the insulin/glucagon ratio depends on our carb intake. If it is low enough, both glucagon and insulin are secreted when we eat protein, and the body remains in fat-burning mode. If carb intake is high, however, the insulin response to protein is still present, but the glucagon response is inhibited, so the insulin/glucagon ratio skyrockets, and we are in fat-storing mode. Under normal circumstances, protein does not provide energy to the body. Only glucose and fatty acids do.
The effect of fat on insulin and glucagon is minimal. There is only enough insulin response to keep us alive and functioning (insulin is essential to our survival; we just don’t want too much of it). So when we cut our carb intake on a ketogenic diet, fat becomes the source of energy to replace the energy we are no longer getting from glucose/carbohydrate. And since fat is more than twice as calorie-dense, it takes less than half the amount of fat to yield the same number of calories as a given amount of carobhydrate.
So the key to a ketogenic diet is to strictly limit carbohydrate intake, get enough protein to meet the body’s needs, and eat enough fat to satisfy hunger (that way you know you’ll be getting enough energy). This all runs counter to the standard advice to eat less and move more, but it is based on human biology, and the standard advice is simply a recipe for being hungry all the time.
If you cut your carb intake, and be sure to get enough fat and protein (in other words, eat meat), you should be fine. There is a lot more you can do to maximise your health, but this is enough to get started. Give it a good try; often women’s hormones need a month or two to re-regulate themselves before the beneficial effects of keto start.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond. But please believe me when I say, it’s not that I didn’t do keto right.
I’m trying to use my weird keto experience to figure out what’s wrong with my personal physiology. I’m not looking for info on how to do keto correctly,
I’m almost at the point where I don’t have enough energy to do my desk job, so I’m doing all I can to get a diagnosis - and my reaction to keto is a clue.
Keto flu is already not normal, I don’t think we supposed to have it. I never had and it’s said to be a mere electrolyte problem so there is a big chance to avoid with proper electrolyte intake.
How did you eat on keto?
You seem to be a special case anyway but it probably matters A LOT what and how much you eat and some tweaking may help at least some… But maybe you tried that. But maybe not the RIGHT one. It took me years to find the keto style but actually has benefits and where I don’t get cramps if I don’t supplement magnesium.
I always say keto isn’t for everyone, you may be such a person… It’s definitely very weird that stopping keto didn’t solve the problems keto seemed to cause…
Hi Shinita,
I had been eating a very clean (non-processed, partly organic, home cooked) paleo diet for years before attempting keto, so I didn’t expect to get keto flu, or at least not a lot of it. But when I was feeling awful, I figure it was keto flu and it would be temporary.
This happened 3 years ago, so I can’t remember all the details. But I read a ton about keto before I started. I bought a ketone meter. I dramatically increased my water intake. I tracked my macronutrient levels and tried various adjustments. I added electrolytes. I did all my homework and tried all the various things that people in the know say to try.
I always expected it to work, so I kept on for quite a while (those glimpses of success kept me going!!). But the fact that I didn’t bounce back after I stopped means (at least in my opinion) that there is something else going on.
When I came upon hematochromatosis, that seemed to fit perfectly. Someone with that iron disorder would feel worse on keto - and it would make sense that you wouldn’t bounce back. I thought I cracked the mystery. But my doc did tests for that disorder and I simply don’t seem to have it.
without that info most of us can never understand where you were in your journey timeline to even consider it ‘was keto’ or just ‘keto flu’ and adaption and your body dumping toxins and more so?
We all get ‘weird plan eating changes’ when we start and they can last a long time for some individuals who need to heal/repair the body more plus 3 yrs ago with pre-mena included coming down the pike at ya, yea hormones sure play a monster role.
key being you didn’t just eat whole foods from day 1 and drink to normal thirst. You went all in and overboard maybe?? BE YOU on the plan. You read what it took for others and if you incorporated others experiences and ‘their fixes’ even before you experience any issues? YA MIGHTA got in your own way…not sayin’ ya did but if one ‘over-researches’ one misses a vital factor. Simplicity. This allows US to be US on Keto ya know.
Paleo vs. keto. What is the diff. cause I am not sure on Paleo but if ya did great on Paleo why not stay there?? just wondering
I was extreme low carb when I hit my zero carb eating plan. I HAD adaption and flu and ick times and never thought I would when I dumped just 10g of carbs outta my life so? We think there is no way we can feel change when we feel plans are ‘so close’ in nature but in the end the body makes all calls.
Hmm… I don’t remember how long it was, but I think 2 or 3 months (or maybe it just seemed like that. I was basically not able to function and I needed to work and live so at some point, I just couldn’t continued.
Paleo (the normal one in my country as I saw different things called paleo elsewhere) doesn’t allow dairy and grains/gluten but much carbs are apparently fine if they come from the right sources. I think not too much fruit is advised but some paleoers do eat pretty much from my viewpoint. Well I could go over 200g without fruits and paleo starches… Oh yep, tapioca is paleo for some reason (well, it’s not a grain… almost no starches are paleo but some are so carby paleo breads exist). And butter isn’t.
Many paleoers automatically do keto as well, others fall into the low-carb category, I was an anomaly as I easily did high-carb due to my lowish-carb vegs and some other, less significant carb sources.
Paleo and keto is somewhat similar but very different too, it depends on the viewpoint and the actual style.
What are your serum iron, your percent transferrin saturation and your Ferritin measurements? What is your ceruloplasmin if you have that as well? How did your doctor rule out hematochomatosis?
EDIT: Actually, also what are your red blood cells like: RBC and RDW in particular, but if you have them, show them all, especially if you have before and after being tired to compare changes.
OK key being what S just said above on Paleo you could be on a way higher carb from plants count then I know?? Again I don’t know the plan ever and can’t say where ‘you came from’ but feel great doing it…so if feeling good then why leave? what is your reasoning for forward movement into Keto Plan if you are functioning and doing so well on Paleo? Just curious.
Yes off fast food and crap boxed processed food in stores everyone lives on is ‘not a diet healthy eating lifestyle change’ in a way cause we then have to address while we ‘dump the junk’ in our food industry, as we heal what 'real veg/or excess fat intake/ or even some meats and more ‘effect’ us ya know. It is that kinda walk we try to ‘find us’ but it won’t ever be a fast path we all want
2-3 mos. Keto could easily have been A TON OF adaption time lower your carbs and withdrawl, body dumping toxins and more and while you might not feel ya got that ‘keto flu’ so many chat about, the body is sending TONS of signals it is changing and we feel like crap. One is massive low energy. Another is sleep interruptions. Another is not wanting to eat the food on this plan to what it entails to hoovering down tons of food when you are hungry and then of course…who are you? What is your stage in life and what you truly need? You said possible pre-mena and us gals know there are massive swings in this stage coming. been thru that mess LOL
I say one thing.
Do keto again. And I would put a time frame easily of 6 mons. Yea. Could be you for that turn over but again while I say Keto is interesting to you and you want to explore it, IF SO darn good on Paleo why leave it?
Kinda like what are you after here in goals you have not received from your Paleo?
again just chatting it out to find more on your insights on how you wanna roll and what you want out of your eating lifestyle.
thanks for great replies when I asked, it shows all of us more on how your journey into eating changes might go down for ya.
On any prescip meds? again another one has to consider.
These are my ferritin levels over time. You can see that the first time it’s elevated, (circled) is right after keto, but it’s been elevated almost every test since.
but WE CAN NOT understand YOU as a human body ya know.
We don’t know you and your medical and life at all.
so to say ‘your keto’ was ‘wrong’ but ya ‘don’t know why’ but I don’t think there is a great advisor from Keto Plan who can ‘guess’ anything about ya now in a way?? We are very personal gray areas in our lives with eating plans as we adapt.
not saying this is bad but I asked questions why Paelo you did so well, why the leap to Keto?
What are you personally searching for and why?
I think not doing keto right is kinda a hard concept if you dumped non-real overly processed crap but you had to walk your path thru adaption times? again not sure
Keto is keep carbs 20 g per day. After that you kinda have a rein on how to go IF YOU dump fake. IE like sweeteners, etc
I will leave this up to Keto experts on the site. I am carnivore so I walked thru Keto but I can’t give any more in a way that might suit you best.
keep on chatting and finding you in it all and best of luck!!
well we all def. try to help newer people understand changes and in the end you are you ya know and most advice comes thru personal esperiences we walked thru and ‘should suit you’ but then I always say, you are you
but there are great Keto thriving people here who can address better than me.
keep the faith, you got this with the more ya learn thru just reading it all out, experiences and science and ‘how ya feel’ thru changes…yes we find our paths and yours will come clearer with your gumption to find it!
I have similar iron issues as of late, which prompted my questions. Here is my thread https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/weird-blood-results-any-thoughts/116021/25 . I was interested in ceruloplasmin as a measure of copper. I believe that was my problem (have not done second set since to verify) which I resolved by eating more copper in the form of beef liver (could have used oysters). It took a few days to start to feel better. Still not sure if I resolved the issue for sure, but I have not felt as energy zapped since. If you see my post, my iron was worse than yours, but similar otherwise.
Should not hurt you to try either foods twice a week for two weeks to see if you feel better.
