Need Explanation Please "WHY FASTING IS EASIER FOR SOME PEOPLE"

(Richard Hanson) #52

We watch Le Tour every summer, but John has no interest at all.

My dear Susi still hates Alberto Contador for attacking when Andy Schleck suffered a mechanical on the Port de Balès in 2010. She gets so mad every time Alberto is on the TV that I keep a cloth handy to wipe the spittle off the screen. I am quite certain I would find myself homeless if she ever had a change to replace me with Peter Sagan.

Mrs. Hanson is a hot, Irish, redheaded version of Miss. Targaryen, to me, and as I am a physical coward, no one will ever catch me saying anything contrary to that view, not even in private. :wink:

(Richard Morris) #53

LOL. I think we can just put that hypothesis into the category of … “no shit sherlock”. :smiley:

Alpert’s calculations determined the slope of the line at various points on the process in the starvation process, so I’m not sure that we can say he was only testing the fumes in an empty fuel tank … he also captured the initial change in FFM as fat contribution first began to be constrained and found that that constraint was a linear function of the total fat mass. He was able to extrapolate that in both directions and to speculate a figure for the theoretical maximum rate. And I think you are correct that is is just a speculation … but he was able to compare all the subjects in Keys study to back test his hypothesis.

But yeah we still come down to relying upon “the weasel Keys”, damn his eyes. I wish that all George Cahills data from his starvation study were available because he had catheterized subjects and was measuring all their circulating energy substrates. At the very least I’d like to know if they fit on Alpert’s curve.

I’ll tell you a secret. I don’t expect to ever have a “healthy” BMI. I am currently at the top of overweight flirting with Obese. I’ll tell you why I don’t expect every to be healthy … for my height my healthy range is 59kg to 79kg. I don’t expect to grow taller from this point in my life, so below 79kg is what I have to hit if I ever want to be healthy weight.

But according to DEXA scans my current lean mass is 80.380 kgs. Even if I could lose all body fat, I would still be 1.38 kgs overweight. It shows you how crazy the idea of using BMI to set your goals is, well at least it’s crazy for a dense bastard like me.

Oh nice application, yes that would be intellectually quite stimulating. I can well imagine how the flight dispatch scheduling software since might be a different pace.

I have a similar story. In 2000 I made partner on Wall St in a company that spun off from the risk division of JP Morgan, but I was at the coal face as a software architect developing risk modeling for credit derivatives. Also quite an intellectual challenge. I’ve not worked in such a challenging area since … but when I left in 2002 I told everyone I could that CDOs would blow up the economy and 6 years later … they did exactly that. But I didn’t have a podcast back then and no-one was listening. Now when I warn people that type 2 diabetes will explode our health care if we don’t change course … well I have a few listeners :slight_smile:

(Consensus is Politics) #54

I make my 20oz coffee with 2 tbsp of coconut oil, 1 tsp of ghee, and probably 1/4 cup of heavy whipping cream (was the only heavy cream I could find. It is 0 carb, 100% fat, so there’s that).

Oh, and its awesome! I drink that at around 0630 hrs every morning. No breakfast. I’m not hungry all day. But I realize I need a certain amount of protein so I usually eat a late lunch, around 1500 hrs. Lately its been about a 5 oz portion of pork loin that I made from a big ol’ long pork loin. Got 20 little pork steaks out of it. Cooked up the loin following a simple recipe for it I found online. Cut it up into 20ish portions about 1 1/2 inches thick each, and vacuum pack. I under cooked them by about 5 minutes, still pink in the middle after cutting them up. Look a little on the raw side. I take one out the night before, still in its vacuum pack and put it in the fridge. Take it out around noon to see if it thawed, if not, toss it in a pot of water to quick thaw to room temp. Then throw that baby on a skillet with coconut oil or olive oil, or even in a pan of bacon grease. I’ll cook some bacon just to have the fresh bacon grease. Then I have a great snack later! Sorry for another verbose reply, but, Im not a cook. Im especially happy this one worked out, kinda proud of it one might say.

(Richard Morris) #55

That’s an impressive technique … and you say you’re not a cook. I beg to differ. That pork belly sounds perfect.

(Richard Hanson) #56

Hi Richard,

I started in the obese category and am now nominally in the “health” BMI range. I have a light bone structure, but others are much different and it is my understanding that BMI is more appropriately applied to populations instead of individuals. People are not statistics and don’t fit into tidy little categories.

At 55, and wed these many years, I truly don’t have any interest in increasing lean body mass, most especially not upper body strength. To me, that is just useless extra weight to haul up and down mountains when I go backpacking. Something I can do again.

Early in December, Mrs. Hanson and I are going down to the Texas Hill Country to have a dinner at our favorite winery. $175 a plate with an abundance of good wine, good food, and good friends. It will be my 56th birthday and if I get overly intoxicated the B&B is right next door. I should be able to make it safely home for the night if Susi can refrain from stepping on my hands. I am going to be wearing a new gray jacket that I bought just this evening, size 40 down from a 46, a pair of wrangler jeans and a dark blue cowboy shirt, the exact same pants and shirt that I wore decades ago on the very day I first met my darling wife. Mrs. Hanson has no idea, she is going to cry.

Keto life is full of joy!

Warmest Regards,
Richard

(Bunny) #57

Women (hormonal) should not fast more than two or three days [edit] (for two weeks then add a day Need Explanation Please "WHY FASTING IS EASIER FOR SOME PEOPLE") because it can shrink the ovaries.

Craving food or sweets means your not burning fat during the delta phase of sleep that is when you actually burn the fat and human growth hormone (hgh) is produced and released from the brain and into the blood stream. And women especially should be mindful to always drink organic apple cider vinegar mixed (1tbs. to a glass of water) with organic lemon juice (1tbs. to a glass of water) EVERYDAY for PH balance (alkaline to acidic ratio as different parts of the body need different PH) to prevent stones (calcium oxalate) in the body when fasting or on a ketogenic diet e.g gall stones/kidney stones/bladder stones etc. Apple cider vinegar and lemon juice (when fasting) also spikes (cells on pituitary gland) human growth hormones (hgh) to 2000% when in the delta phase of sleep. You cannot burn fat without HGH!

DO NOT take HGH or DHEA supplements or your body will quit producing them naturally and will rely on an exogenic source!

(Richard Morris) #58

We secrete hydrochloric acid in our stomachs to break down proteins into chyme … HCl has a pH of 1.

Acetic acid with a pH around 2.2 and Citric acid with a pH of 2 are not going to alter the pH of anything in your gut beyond your stomach. We tightly regulate the pH of our body with a homeostatic regulation called the bicarbonate buffer system. It takes a major derangement like lactic or keto acidosis to perturb that.

Acetic acid (vinegar) has discrete benefits for glycostasis and it’s a SCFA substrate for making ketones. But I don’t think any of it’s health benefits are from it’s acidity - except for preventing acid reflux above the stomach.

I’d be interested in a citation on that statement about fasting shrinking the ovaries and what benefit or detriment that confers.

(Bunny) #59

I can answer your question correctly but cannot because it will be deleted!

sorry guy!

(Tim W) #60

Same here Richard, i don’t think we will see it, as many fasting papers, studies and books I’ve read I’ve never seen those cautions. Sbun is trolling/bot?

(Richard Morris) #61

We only delete spam. We don’t delete unusual opinions.

(Bacon for the Win) #62

oh how I wish I could see her expression when she sees you!

(Bunny) #63

First and foremost I thought it would be educational for other forum readers to describe some other things before we get into ovaries and intermittent fasting; indigestion e.g. acid reflux/heartburn etc. problems stem from lack of hydrochloric acid or a stomach that is too alkaline which prevents the stomach valve from closing and thus overflows into the esophagus, the presence of high hydrochloric acid closes this valve, hydrochloric acid also declines with age! Low hydrochloric acid prevents the breakdown of collagen and nutrients we get from the substances we put in our body! Stomach acids need to be really strong, between 1-3 PH (ph alkaline - acidic scale 0 to 14) to absorb minerals and kill microbes.

The enzymes, including supplementation with Pepsin, Bromelain, Amylase, Lipase and Betaine (with pepsin/only take immediately after eating protein) are good for breaking down nutrients and preservatives (if you happen to eat it!) in food also!

Second the purpose of using acetic acid and lemon juice (I’m postulating has many more benefits than described here or is known - more research needed?) together is for the acidic processes that form in the stomach, gut or intestinal tract! Apple cider vinegar and lemon juice also prevents the formation of calcium oxalate i.e. gall bladder, kidney and bladder stones in relation to liver function (bile salts) when eating a high fat, low carb diet! If you add ground Chia seeds into the mix, it improves the way calcium and insulin are processed and regulated in the body too.

If you put two 2x acetic acid molecules together you get DIACETIC ACID or ACETOCETIC ACID or 1 of 3 ketone bodies!

Dr. Eric Berg explains why apple cider vinegar works for weight loss. The key factor in apple cider vinegar (ACV) is acetic acid and how this acid improves:

  1. Decreasing insulin output
  2. Improving insulin resistance
  3. Decreasing blood sugars
  4. Improving A1C (average blood sugars for 3 months)

RESEARCH:

  1. Acetic acid inhibits insulin secretion
    Acetate receptor inhibitors could improve diabetes therapy.
    https://www.mpg.de/8952248/acetic-acid-insulin-secretion
  2. Vinegar Improves Insulin Sensitivity to a High-Carbohydrate Meal in Subjects With Insulin Resistance or Type 2 Diabetes. http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/27/1/281
  3. The role of acetic acid on glucose uptake and blood flow rates in the skeletal muscle in humans with impaired glucose tolerance. Randomized controlled trial, Mitrou P, et al. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2015.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25626409
  4. Vinegar supplementation lowers glucose and insulin responses and increases satiety after a bread meal in healthy subjects. https://www.nature.com/articles/1602197

Third we will let Dr. Axe explain ketogenic diet, ovarian shrinkage and intermittent fasting for women https://draxe.com/intermittent-fasting-women/

It is my hope that what I am describing here is a good anchor to follow, to understand the way the body works and proceed to understand bio-molecular physics i.e. bio-hacking!

00EE5C10-49D5-4DC7-9187-82EBB61A695E
00EE5C10-49D5-4DC7-9187-82EBB61A695E.jpeg735×2559 170 KB

Hit me with your ideas!
#64

@atomicspacebunny, thanks for such a thorough post!

I’m going to come back to my ACV in water habit after reading your notes.

Re: fasting for women: I think that we almost need to have two different words for fasting for those who are fat adapted and those who are not. The panic that the body goes into when it runs primarily on glucose (or is just used to higher levels of carbs) can be pretty extreme, and women’s hormones are of course very sensitive to that panic, especially in the fertile years.

I wish we had a decent study on fasting once women are fat adapted, because I suspect you would see completely different hormonal effects. If we have full access to our fat stores, there’s really no reason for the cascade of hormonal changes that come from “shut it down! you’re about to starve!” that happens when we’re sugar burners.

(Jennifer) #65

I passed a kidney stone last Monday. Hurt more than childbirth - I thought it was my appendix. I will be more consistant with my ACV. I made some fire cider a month or so ago, might just take that daily.

(Jennifer) #66

I think you are on to something here…

#67

@birddog27 Right? It would also explain such dramatically different anecdotes and approaches when it comes to fasting for women. I know that we’re all different and of course n=1 and genetics (etc) … but somehow the guidelines for women fasting are diametrically opposed even within a community that has enormous amount of overlap on other recommendations (keto/LC/ancestral).

But :rofl::rofl: at anyone ever getting funding on a fasting study…

(Jim Russell) #68

Yes, I’m in the same situation. At 6 feet tall I have about 190 pounds of lean body mass. If I woke up tomorrow with zero body fat I would still be “overweight” according to BMI.

BMI was never meant to be prescriptive, but rather descriptive. It doesn’t take into account muscle mass at all. A recent study found that people in the overweight category were more healthy than the normal category.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106268439

(Bunny) #69

lol “sugar burners” I use that line a lot!

(Jennifer) #70

Yeah - even at 5’3" and 115 pounds of LBM I could get down to 145 (20% BF) and still be considered overweight. BMI is an absolutely worthless calculation.

(Consensus is Politics) #71

Thank you Richard. And might I say, a man wears a hat like that, people know he ain’t afraid of nothin’ :cowboy_hat_face: