Need Explanation Please "WHY FASTING IS EASIER FOR SOME PEOPLE"


(Richard Morris) #17

Fat shouldn’t raise insulin, which won’t inhibit glucagon mediated autophagy. So yes I would say that is appropriate.


(Mary) #18

Hello all!

This is my first post. I’m so thrilled to find this forum! Even in these supposedly enlightened times, fasting seems to be something that one shouldn’t shout from the rooftops. So I’m shouting here… Glad to find some like-minded individuals.

This is the first time I’ve heard of “the maximum rate we can get energy from body fat”. Fascinating! Let’s see if I’ve got this right - my goal is approx 135. At 20% BF (27 lbs) my lean body mass should be about 108 lbs. I was 218 this morning which means I’m carrying 90 lbs of fat (yikes) which should yield all the energy I need for the day. Would I be correct in assuming that as I lose BF (40 lbs or so), I’ll need to supplement with fat to make up the energy shortfall?

I’m on day 6 of an extended fast which will end when I feel the need. Must make up that electrolyte recipe…


(Mary) #19

Oops - terrible math. I’m carry 110# of fat.


(Liam) #20

day 6 huh? congrats! I’m on day 4 and have felt SO WEAK, like can hardly walk very far etc… am doing the fat as per the calculator, not sure how much it’s helping on the energy front, certainly hope it’s helping on the “not losing muscle” front tho! Hearing so many people here talking about how amazing they feel on their fasts, definitely not the case for me ugh


(Liam) #21

By the way what is that electrolyte recipe you’re talking about?


(Jim Russell) #22

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/ketoaide-homemade-ketoade/5198

I haven’t been able to find the bottled magnesium drinks, so I bought some magnesium citrate powder and put about 1/2 tsp. I also cut the lite salt down a little and add sea salt. I use the water flavoring drops like Mio for flavoring. It works great.


(Liam) #23

thanks man!


(Tim W) #24

Are you in the US? I can find the liquid mag citrate at nearly every grocery store and pharmacy in the laxative areas.


(Jim Russell) #25

Ah, I was looking in the vitamin area. I will have to check the laxative area. But I’m happy with the way I have been doing it.


(Liam) #26

Hey Jimbo, curious if you’ve heard any talk about coffee while fasting? Like does it interfere with any of the benefits of fasting? How much is too much? It’s basically what’s been keeping me going and I feel a little guilty with how much I’ve been drinking while I’m supposed to be cleansing LOL


(Tim W) #27

I hear ya. It will be in a glass jar, near the laxatives/stomach aids/pepto bismo, that area. I add a potassium powder to mine to ensure I’m getting enough of that, ketoaid is a great base to play with.


(Jim Russell) #28

I have seen a lot of people on here quitting or limiting coffee, but I don’t really understand why. Every study of coffee drinkers lately has shown long term health benefits.

Personally, I drink a lot of coffee. I drink several espressos and at least a pot of coffee every day. Fasting or not.

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/coffee-new-health-food#1

A growing body of research shows that coffee drinkers, compared to nondrinkers, are:

  • less likely to have type 2 diabetes, Parkinson’s disease, and dementia
  • have fewer cases of certain cancers, heart rhythm problems, and strokes

(Liam) #29

awesome!! i loved this podcast - https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/live-a-longer-healthier-life-podcast-with-dr-sanjiv-chopra/


(Jim Russell) #30

I will have to listen to that.

One thing to note is that I am a “fast caffeine oxidizer” according to genetic testing from 23andme.com. So caffeine is flushed out of my system rapidly and does not affect me as much. I can drink coffee then go to sleep with no issues. Perhaps people without this gene do need to moderate or eliminate coffee consumption.


(Liam) #31

yeah, i got my 23andme done, i’m right in the middle and i am a certified coffee addict, felt like a wimp not giving it up on my fast but with all the benefits we’re hearing about I have a good excuse :slight_smile:


(Sjur Gjøstein Karevoll) #32

Just to correct you there, every study of coffee drinkers lately has shown correlation between heavy coffee drinkers and increased long term health outcomes. These are all observational studies and don’t prove causation. People don’t just randomly choose to become heavy coffee drinkers or not, they do it in a context. It’s quite possible that whatever causes some people to have a higher tolerance is also what gives them long term health benefits and coffee is just along for the ride.


(Liam) #33

But you are assuming that heavy coffee drinkers have a higher tolerance in your statement right? That may not be the case unless I’m missing something?


(Mark Rhodes) #34

@Jimbo Well that explains my 10PM 4 shot grande.


(Jim Russell) #35

Sure, correlation does not equal causation. I’m not even claiming that coffee is healthy. Just that it doesn’t seem to be unhealthy and I’m not sure why people are quitting coffee. I know that it can cause cortisol spikes which can cause glucose to be released from the liver. But in habitual caffeinated coffee drinkers, this is a very small effect.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2257922/

imagehttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2257922/bin/nihms40260f2.gif

In this study, they had 4 groups. 1 group (PP) had no coffee at all, they were they control group. They tested cortisol 1 day per week for 4 weeks. The other 3 groups all had a caffeine challenge of 750 mg on the test day and received various levels of caffeine on the other days. The PC group had no caffeine on the non-test days, C300 group had 300mg caffeine on non-test days and C600 had 600mg on non-test days.

As you can see from the graph, the PC group had a very large cortisol spike, the C300 had a smaller but still significant spike and the C600 group had smaller spike which was not much greater than the control group. I conclude from this that if you regularly consume caffeine, that your cortisol is not much affected. The caveat being that this study used standardized caffeine pills, not coffee. I would love to see a study that also divided people into fast caffeine metabolizers and slow caffeine metabolizers.

The theory that it may be the genes that select for seeking out coffee that are protective, not the coffee itself could have some merit. This study identified genetic variants that appear to make people seek out coffee. What other effects they may have is unknown.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25288136

So I guess my point is, if you enjoy coffee and tolerate it well, especially if you are a fast metabolizer, I don’t see any reason to quit. Especially since there are a lot of positive outcomes associated with coffee consumption.


(Sjur Gjøstein Karevoll) #36

I agree with you completely. I just want to caution people of reading too much into the studies showing correlation, as so often happens.

I think many who cut out coffee do so for other reasons than long-term health though. For example sleep is well known to be affected by caffeine late in the day. Some may also decrease or stop coffee consumption to deal with acid reflux or other digestion issues.

Anyone tell you coffee is “unhealthy” or “healthy” without being able to provide further context however, that person doesn’t know what they’re talking about.