My Journey/Help with Lipid Profile

[DannyG]

Thanks, Robin! Can I ask what symptoms you’re referring to specifically?

Also, are you saying your lipids are still elevated (mainly LDL)?

[VirginiaEdie]

We usually suggest people wait about 6 months after starting this way of eating before getting blood tests done. It frequently takes about that long for the body to really get adjusted and fat adapted. You can even see that in your own blood test results. Your total cholesterol in November was 275. Two months later it dropped to 262. At the same time, your Triglycerides continued to drop and your HDL increase. It seems you are certainly heading in the right direction.

You mentioned drinking enough that it sounds like it could be an issue. I think it is really good that you are cutting back.

[ctviggen]

I shouldn’t see an increase in LDL as a result of doing keto and he’d like to see that LDL number come down.

He does not know about what he speaks.

Elevated LDL Cholesterol with a Carbohydrate-Restricted Diet: Evidence for a...

This shows that most people get an LDL rise, though the people with lower body mass have higher LDL rise.

Particularly, the first 6 months or so likely means higher LDL.

But if you’re male with an HDL of 71, that means you tend toward LMHR, which means you’re going to have higher LSL. (And LMHRs can have…stunningly high LDL.)

[robintemplin]

@DannyG No problem… but understand we have differences too… I’m 68, female, started keto at 215 lbs and now weigh 147… 1 year strict keto, then I slid naturally into carnivore 1 1/2 years ago.

To your specific question : “mysterious reactions to food (difficult to pinpoint) which has led to a lot of gas, bloating, discomfort and even GERD’… all of the above and more. Achy joints, fatigue. And diverticulitis, which I discovered was brought on whenever I ate vegetables… especially raw.

My doc learned about keto right along with me. He is very supportive. Everything has improved but my lipids. My total is almost 500 and my ldl is 400. But my trigs and HDL are great. And I have low blood pressure.

Once you find your balance on keto, you will be able to easily identify which foods cause problems. And you can test the theory by eliminating them. You can always try slowly adding things back in too.

BTW… I am a recovered alcoholic. I would not have been able to accomplish this if I were still drinking. But we are all different and react differently. That’s why you will often get conflicting opinions here.

Simply lowering your carb intake is a big win. It’s up to you how far you take it. It’s a win-win.

[ctviggen]

started keto at 215 lbs and now weigh 147

Wholly crap! Impressive!

[lfod14]

Really comes down to what you’re eating specifically. At 4 days keto 3 days off, what does that off time look like? Still a clean low carb diet? Or “normal”? Keto raises our cholesterol more than people say it does, but depending on what you do on those other 3 days could have a huge effect. Keto and high carb eating aren’t compatible. You can eat normal low carb and then eat higher, but to bounce from one extreme to the other will have your cholesterol all over the place.

I do a Hybrid of TKD/CKD, so I’m having carbs pre-workout and I do a carb reload once or twice a week to top off muscle glycogen. But even then, I’m not eating “normal” amounts of carbs. Sometimes it’s hard to find the balance that works for you.

I’m also not an overweight person. When I started, I was roughly 170-172 and now weigh about 160. I’m 5’11” and physically fit with a 4-5 day per week HIIT workout regimen.

Have you done a food sensitivity test or a stool test? I learned a ton with those.

[DannyG]

Wow, that really is impressive! Well done!! Also encouraging to hear you have a doc that’s gotten onboard with everything despite your cholesterol numbers - Hard to find open minded medical professionals, it seems. They seem to want to follow the conventional wisdom despite it being outdated in many ways.

Thanks for sharing! Also, you may have misread what I was saying about my food sensitivities. I don’t have any on keto which is great! But I used to have many prior to starting keto. That’s definitely been the biggest benefit of this diet for me.

[DannyG]

I say 4 days on 3 days off because my wife and I would usually be out with friends over the weekend (including Friday evening) having drinks, etc. A lot of the time, that includes carb heavy microbrews and, often a cheat meal which could be a cheeseburger with the bun or a Thai meal with some rice or, on a couple of shameful occasions, some pizza. It would only be a couple of meals like that per week but, still, not great and when combined with the beer, really not great…

That said, I still do have (for example) a slice of thin sliced Dave’s Killer Goodseed bread with breakfast but it’s only 9g net carbs and, when committing to keto during the week (and now always) I’d stay well under 50g of carbs per day easy.

As for the food sensitivity and stool tests, yes I have done that and found nothing of note. It was suggested I try a FODMAP diet and that was nonsense. My brother has a gluten sensitivity and certain things containing gluten mess with me but others don’t… For example, beer and small amounts of bread don’t do anything to me.

[DannyG]

Thanks for all of this! It would make sense if I were a LMHR as, in the past, my wife decided to try Paleo and I attempted it with her (in 2016) but, after a visit to my doc for my annual physical, I found my cholesterol was elevated so I stopped… That was before any of this information you’re sharing, and that can be found in many other places in different formats, was well known. By me at least.

On a similar note, regarding LDL reaction to keto, I just watched this video by Mike Prevost in which he discusses this topic around the 29 minute mark. And if anyone seeing this hasn’t watched this video, do it - Interesting stuff!

[SomeGuy]

And, finally, my fat intake has been a bit lighter than the traditional keto regimen. Again, hence the “pseudo keto” label.

@DannyG Welcome to the forum!

Okay, I’m going to cut to the chase:

It ain’t the fat … it’s the carbs.

“Pseudo-keto” sounds like a term you made up to describe what you’re not doing … i.e., you’re not cutting out the carbs.

Stay off the carbs and your Trigs will come down as your HDL rises. To hell with the rest of those figures (except that your A1C is not problematic, yet).

If nothing else, as you roam the taverns of your social life, please remember this:

Beer = bread
Cheat meals = more bread

If you had gas bloating, GERD and related discomfort while on carbs and it was abating without carbs, well… it’s highly likely to be the carbs.

Trigger alert: I’m going to be blunt…

You can either stop eating all those carbs or you can continue to deal with gas bloating, GERD, and discomfort. It’s your call, my friend.

None of this even speaks to what’s likely happening slowly but surely to the rest of your body you haven’t heard from yet … your arteries, liver, heart, and brain…

Simple question: Does your 42 year old rapidly-aging body deserve to be “cheated” on? If so, go for it and check back in with us in about 10-20 years.

Meanwhile, take it from a mid-60s guy who once fit your 40+ yr old description. Wish I’d cut out the carbs 20 years sooner. Am finally feeling like I’m 25 again.

[DannyG]

Not sure if you read my entire post but I repeatedly acknowledged that the beer and cheat meals were a terrible decision and I’ve stopped doing that. And, yes, as I mentioned, I referred to it as pseudo keto because of these poor habits. So, no need to harp on it - I got it.

That said, I truly hope cutting these “cheats” out results in improved LDL and even stronger Trigs and HDL, both of which are currently much better than they were before keto.

Appreciate your time and feedback.

[SomeGuy]

Not sure if you read my entire post but I repeatedly acknowledged that the beer and cheat meals were a terrible decision and I’ve stopped doing that. And, yes, as I mentioned, I referred to it as pseudo keto because of these poor habits. So, no need to harp on it - I got it.

Sorry if I offended. Was intending to promote and support you in making the best choices for yourself going forward - perhaps punching the point more than was helpful. My bad.

[DannyG]

No worries - Context is hard to convey via text. Appreciate the support.

[Naghite]

That said, I truly hope cutting these “cheats” out results in improved LDL and even stronger Trigs and HDL, both of which are currently much better than they were before keto.

Welcome Danny. Your numbers are better than mine, except your HDL is lower. My LDL is somewhere around 325 - 400 depending on the day. From my perspective, I am a bit worried about my sd-LDL (around 500) but certainly not my normal LDL. So while you say you want “better” LDL, I doubt your will go down, if anything it will probably go up more as you lose more body fat. The question is, do you believe the old paradigm (LDL bad), or the new paradigm (LDL does not matter on it’s own). There is no definitively correct answer, but I will be going with this paper https://journals.lww.com/co-endocrinology/Fulltext/2022/10000/Statin_therapy_is_not_warranted_for_a_person_with.14.aspx# meaning no statins for me. You should of course decide for yourself, and while reading what is written here, none of us know 100% for sure, so keep that in mind as well.

[DannyG]

Thanks for the thoughtful and informative response, Michael. Scrolling around this forum has shown me that my LDL-C really isn’t that high. It was just a shock to me, and my doctors weren’t reassuring in any way.

I didn’t think a Small LDL of around 500 was bad - According to the reference range on my test, anything <634 is ok (mine was 446). But, who the heck knows… These reference ranges all seem outdated.

As for my LDL-C increasing as I lose weight, I’m not sure how that can happen. I don’t really have weight to lose as I’ve always been lean and fairly muscular and now there’s really no adipose left. At this point, I weigh about what I did when I graduated high school but with more muscle mass. Almost worried about getting lighter! Not complaining at all, it’s just crazy what this diet can do, even when not followed strictly (as I hadn’t to date).

[Alecmcq]

Danny
I think you are worrying about the wrong thing. Nobody has yet pointed out that it is actually better for you to have higher LDL. High LDL is protective against All Cause Mortality. The below is a graph created by Dr Zoe Harcombe using WHO data. The higher the LDL, the lower the All Cause Mortality.

This analysis matches other data points, such as the fact that the average LDL level of people being admitted to hospital in the US with a heart attack is lower than the US average LDL level. If high LDL causes CVD, how can this be possible?

The CW has got this badly wrong. When you learn this, doctors suggesting statins becomes quite laughable, because statins are very effective in reducing LDL. But they are not effective in cutting ACM. That’s what the data says.

So what should you focus on avoiding? High A1C (caused by carbs); high trigs (caused by carbs); high insulin (caused by carbs); you see the pattern?

[DannyG]

Alec, you’re very correct in saying I’m focusing on the wrong thing - I have no clue what to focus on. Still learning and I’m grateful for people like you and numerous others on this forum that have been so helpful and informative.

Truly appreciate it!

[PaulL]

But, who the heck knows… These reference ranges all seem outdated.

The reference range varies from lab to lab, because there are different techniques used. Also, it changes at the behest of drug manufacturers, apparently. For example LDL < 150 was fine just a few years ago, but the statin manufacturers got the limit lowered to 90. And I’m sure the fact that it gave them several million new customers had nothing to do with it.

[DannyG]

It’s so insane, sad and frankly frustrating that the world is so driven by the dirty dollar that we can’t know, with full confidence, the unequivocal truth when it comes to our health. Sick care > health care.

[DannyG]

Given the amount of knowledge amongst folks on this forum, I doubt I’m sharing anything new here but I just re-listened to an old Joe Rogan podcast with Paul Saladino and found one particular 30 minute section extremely interesting. I know Joe R can be a controversial figure but I do enjoy his interviews with medical professionals and scholars as it’s always an open minded and honest fact based discussion.

If you haven’t heard THIS and have Spotify, check it out - Start from about the 1:39:30 marker and go until the subject begins to change, around 2:10:00ish. All about lipid profiles and the shortcomings of the standard lipid hypothesis.