My first KETO discussion (argument) over dinner

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#21

Fruit just isn’t what it used to be.

How To Lose Weight: Avoid Eating Fruit

Low-carb fruits and berries – the best and the worst

#22

I know this guy yesterday said that the way he cured his flu was by getting up and drinking a bunch of Orange juice

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #23

Which is why a well-formulated ketogenic diet avoids most fruits, since lowering insulin is the entire point.

#24

Now that’s just psychosomatic. :woozy_face:

#25

:metal: :metal: :metal: :metal: :metal: :metal:

(Matthew) #26

Did I say they were good on a Ketogenic diet? Fruits are good (in moderation) if you do not require to lower your insulin levels. I can take the whole ‘banana is a candy of the fruit world’ thing, but when people lob the majority of fruit is candy argument, then I have an issue with that if people do not require to lower their insulin. What are you going to do? Tell kids they shouldn’t eat fruit?

(Teri) #27

My husband and I had a slight disagreement over what causes people to become tired after TG dinner. Is it the tryptophan in turkey (which I ate about 8 oz of - because JUICY TURKEY), or is it carbs (which was my claim)?
So I had made a sweet potato casserole for the non-ketos in the house, and because it’s one of my husband’s favs. So I probably ate twice as much turkey as he did, but guess who was passed out on the couch while the other took an evening run?
I didn’t push the issue further, because I know that I was right about the carb crash, and that tryptophan making you tired is 100% a myth.
You have to pick and choose your battles, and most people you meet aren’t going to immediately just dismiss their lifelong beliefs about food. Do what you can, especially for your loved ones which is what I’m in the process of doing for my husband. But don’t spend too much of your precious time on convincing others. Give them the info in the nicest, clearest way possible, and then keep doing what you do best - living the keto life.

(Doug) #28

There’s about the same amount of tryptophan in chicken as in turkey, and there’s more in a pork chop. I think the sleepiness is from the body using a lot of energy to digest a big meal, and perhaps lowered blood sugar after a massive insulin response.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #29

Yes. If they were my kids, I’d be bringing them up carbohydrate-free, as much as possible.

I’m rather puzzled about why you keep talking about “people who do not require to lower their insulin,” as such people have no need of a ketogenic diet in the first place.

On the other hand, this, in case you weren’t aware, is www.ketogenicforums.com, and whether we came for weight loss or metabolic health (or both!), all of us here need to keep our insulin low.

If I had no need to keep my insulin low I’d still be out there, eating glazed doughnuts. It’s that simple.

(Matthew) #30

Kids need carbs in moderation, better non refined of course - Fruit, but even refined isn’t anything to sneeze at! I haven’t read any Doctor’s advice stating that kids should be following Keto (or carbohydrate free as much as possible) unless they require it for epilepsy, type 2 diabetes /obesity or other medical conditions where it could be beneficial. Moreover, Keto is a big No-No for kids and much less ‘carbohydrate free as much as possible’ . Find me a doctor who prescribes/recommends it for kids other than for the above stated medical conditions.

There is a plethora of low carb diets out there to lower insulin. Keto isn’t the only one to lower insulin. They probably almost all do.

My argument regarding that ‘Fruits are good’ was in response to the OP’s post. Did you read it? My point being Fruits are good from a perspective of someone who doesn’t require to lower their Pancreas Beta cell insulin output. I’m not into the tribal getting love likes on here so if you want to get all ’ ‘this a ketogenics forum’ blah blah de blah…eat your heart out.

(Tony ) #31

After my substantial weight loss, 27 KGS in 10ish months, at any chance I talk and promote Keto, and I don’t care who it is to. Using myself as an example on how good Keto is , my usual spiel to the non-converted ( especially the blokes ) goes like this - so you don’t think you would like a Keto lifestyle diet , … Imagine you have been invited to a BBQ, there’s, steak, pork, snags ( sausages - I’m an Aussie ) chicken, prawns ( shrimp ) crab, lobster, oysters, fish, cheese, salad, pasta, rice, bread …
Let me tell you nobody here goes for the pasta, rice or bread whilst the other foods are on offer, so after they have chosen the meats and seafood I tell them - congratulations, you prefer a Keto lifestyle diet, and its an easy switch for you, and you can still have the salad!
In my mind the main reason people don’t consider a switch is the fear and guilt about eating healthy saturated fats because of the false government and manufactured food industries “information” put out over many years.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #32

Actually, carbohydrate is unnecessary in the human diet. There is no such thing as a carbohydrate-deficiency disease, and kids raised on traditional diets that were carbohydrate-free grew up to be phenomenally healthy adults (assuming they survived the childhood diseases, of course). Since colonial days, the high proportion of meat in the U.S. diet was considered to be an index of how healthy it was. There used to be so much game available that it was hardly worthwhile to grow crops, and Americans of those days were taller and fitter than anybody else.

In the 1960’s, Dr. George Mann examined something like 450 Maasai warriors living on the traditional diet of milk, meat, and blood and couldn’t find a single case of heart disease, whereas Maasai who had moved to the cities and were living on the standard Western diet suffered from obesity, diabetes, and heart disease at the same rates as the rest of us. Dr. Michael Eades has a fascinating lecture on what happened to the Egyptians when they discovered agriculture. What has happened to the Plains Indians with the switch from their traditional diet to the food staples supplied by the U.S. government is tragic (the case of the Pima especially so).

(Randy) #33

Gary Fettke has some interesting thoughts on that topic.

(Carl Keller) #34

You can’t expect to win an arguement with a carb zombie by telling him how keto works. They don’t want to hear it because it threatens every food and drink they love. It’s like trying to argue with a drug addict while the goverment supports, approves and recommends their addiction. You can’t win unless the addict wants to change. That’s when I am willing to tell them about keto.

Just tell them you don’t eat carbs (thanks Juice) or sugar and leave it at that. Some say ignorance is bliss… but ignorance also leads to obesity, diabetes and heart disease.

The few people who have asked me about Keto were all ears until I told them no grains, flours or starches. They usually end the conversation with “But I love fried chicken” or “But I love pizza”. I think next time, I will try to sell them idea of falling in love with new foods before telling them they need to divorce their favs.

(Carl Keller) #35

It’s a good thing our WOE makes us more patient. Just keep being a living example of success. I’ve been told “you better be careful” and “I don’t like this diet!” when I first started and now the warnings have changed to geniune interest. “How come you don’t starve or how can you possibly not be hungry?” “Do you have to eat like this forever”?

One problem is everyone thinks a diet is something you do temporary and 96% of people don’t understand what a WOE is. And the bigger problem is, our success makes them question their WOE and they don’t like the answers. I didn’t like the answers either but I was willing to try a brief experiment because I didn’t like the road I was headed down and 3 days was all it took to realize what a sheep I had been for all my life.

Maybe giving people a 7 day keto challenge is the answer. It’s not saying you should do it, it’s more like I bet you can’t. People hate when you say they can’t do something.

Better late than never.

That’s like putting on a kevlar vest… after you have been shot.

I ate a giant turkey leg and nibbled at the better part of a wing, had small amounts of mashed potatoes and green bean casserole and not a single yawn came out of me after dinner. There’s at least half a dozen videos on YT to explain the science of why turkey does not make you sleepy.

(Matthew) #36

I understand your references to earlier times. Vegans have great stories also, even current ones showing they live longer etc. I don’t think that gets anyone anywhere regarding what is right to eat.

I would argue that based on the scientific evidence I have gleaned so far in my exploration of low carb diets that children of today require moderated carbohydrate input as I mentioned in my previous post. How anyone could recommend that a child eats as ‘carbohydrate free as possible’ is beyond me. That doesn’t even make practical sense.
Do you have young children?

(Kimberly) #37

Everyone loves my keto pizza and take the breaded skin off the chicken. I know once I realized I could still have these favorites that I could do this forever.

(Kimberly) #38

My 12 yr old daughter has ADHD was over weight and had high blood pressure. After researching the keto diet I found out it was actually a way of eating first FOR children to help ease the symptoms of epilepsy. They noticed these children had fewer episodes and lost weight. My daughter did it just for the summer lost 30 lbs. Is no longer obese lowered her blood pressure and had the mental clarity to stay focused in school.

(Matthew) #39

I already stated in a previous post that children could benefit greatly from a Keto diet according to certain medical conditions such as your daughter. I really wish people would read the thread in full.

By the way, felicitaciones…I’m glad Keto had such a fantastic effect on your dauhter’s recovery

(Empress of the Unexpected) #40

My daughter is now 21, so does her own thing. HOWEVER, for starters, if I could do it all over again, I would NEVER have provided all the apple juice, junk crackers, etc., that toddlers and young children live on. Having said that, would I give her fresh fruit, brown rice instead of white, etc., etc., Yes. In hindsight, I would have basically fed her a very healthy, non-junk food low-carb diet (as my mother fed me), and guided her decisions as time went on. The one thing we did right was no soda, ever. But the fruit juice was just as bad.