My experiment from another carnivore thread

(Daisy) #21

I have actually tried taking multiple forms of vitamin d and vitamin c, but all that I have tried break my face out! The only supplement I can take successfully is magnesium glycinate and I only take that as needed.

(Scott) #22

I too tried the “Organ meat in a pill” and never really felt different or like dropping another $50 on them. My sister in law told my wife that I am “Malnourished” because I don’t eat veggies. I guess I will need to get a blood test that will confirm or refute this. I aced my lipid blood test but don’t know what type to order to show my level of malnourishment. Any ideas?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #23

Complete blood count (CBC) with minerals and other micronutrients. The terminology varies from lab to lab, but if you can find a lab that will do such analyses on demand, they will explain what is tested for in each level of testing they offer (naturally the more you want done, the more expensive the test). If you can’t find such a lab in your state, you might at least look over the offerings of an out-of-state labe to get an idea of what to ask your doctor for.

#24

almost all zc people put NO emphasis on being in active ketosis at all unless you ‘want that active ketosis’ which is kinda like eating on a PKS protocol to be in active ketosis. So that is why zc people don’t even consider any carbs that is in liver or shrimp or anything animal kingdom to matter at all.

but if you ‘are counting carbs’ on zc in animal foods like liver or shrimp, some in eggs etc…then you are wanting ketosis but it isn’t a common thing at all with carnivore. But of course there are some that want that ‘active ketosis’ happening.

I also hope you are not force fasting for 2 days. In other words, if hungry you are not eating on purpose cause again that is almost a no go on carnivore. We eat when hungry, don’t eat when not.

but then again, there are those few and far between zc people that love love love fasting for whatever reasons, but it is not a common practice at all on zc for most.

but like ya say, at some point everyone is gonna make any eating plan suit them how they do wanna do it and I get that.

yea the carbs are the heavy hitters from veg and junk grains and more, and when I dumped them, I became a whole new me :slight_smile: I can’t say how great zc as been to me cause the changes have been so positive that I just literally am ‘new’ heading into my retirement years coming at me.

#25

yea that is me Scott. the price is high to me cause I also felt nothing different on them at all. I will finish the bottle cause I paid for them but after that, nope, no more spending cash on those things.

malnourished cause you don’t eat veg?

don’t get me wrong but do you truly ‘have to prove’ this to her? In that any veggie type thinking they are needed in life maybe ya can just show that info that one carb is never needed by the body from ingesting plants and some other science info…or just proving that thru how ‘robust and healthy’ you are isn’t enough?

I don’t know LOL I would agree with Paul in that when I went zc years ago I did about 1.5 yrs and got a ‘mineral and vitamin’ test done and it wasn’t bad, like 250 in cost but I had to pay for it to be done, and only thing I ‘was low in’ was my vitamin C level and of course NOT eating plants meant I didn’t require higher C in my life cause I was zc so lower C meant nothing to me but every other thing was perfect range…so maybe that would show ‘your health’ factor?

(Kirk Wolak) #26

No, I don’t force fasting. I find fasting easy, and I NEED Ketones to feel decent, it helps with the ADHD side of me. I was doing 4L of diet coke a day just to stay caffeinated, then learned I was self-treating the ADHD.

I lost 122lbs, but bounced up 30 with covid lockdown. My challenge is Inflammation. Massive over-reactions to foods (like Mikhalia Peterson, migraines, weird back pains, etc). And being in ketosis was ALWAYS hard (again a 5g/day limit, very strict). It sucked. My buddy could have a small french fry and still be in ketosis the next day. I smelled them, and got kicked out. LOL

I’ve done OMAD and 2MAD. One issue I face is I don’t really STAY full. 2 hrs after eating 3 lbs of brisket, I can knock down another pound. I’ve eaten 3lbs of freshly cooked bacon in ONE sitting so many times, I stopped buying it. Because I could do 2 more meals that day.

Now, I’ve had to make adjustments, like fasting. I am currently eating 3 Meals a week, so I can lose weight, but yesterdays meal was 3lbs of hamburger patties (100% beef). The last few with Duck Fat spread on them. I also walked 7.5 Miles. And me weight was stable, as it has been for 3 days, even over a fasting day.

When I fast over the weekend (2 days in a row), I tend to actually lose. But ADF (Alternate Day Feeding) is actually going to leave me holding steady. But if I eat more than one meal in that day, I will start gaining weight.

I try NOT to calorie restrict. But I also try to stay in ketosis for the hunger resistance. Being ABLE to eat at any time is REALLY bad when combined with hunger (and “fake” hunger).

Another trick I use is food boredom. One type of food on a given day, nothing else. And I had to exclude Bacon and Pepperoni. Both of which I can overconsume and call to me if they are in the house.

So, I am still fighting demons. Also fighting Hypertension. My BP is down since I cut all pork products out. Not sure if it was the pork, or the copious amounts of salt with the Bacon… But a normal morning BP beats a 180/120 (yep, that high). I believe it is being triggered by inflammation.

As my ketones stay high (GKI at 3 or lower), my BP is appearing to normalize after a few days…

BTW, do you eat processed meats like Bacon or Pepperoni? Any issues therein?

#27

oh, the being in active ketosis is a definite factor for you and your situation. I absolutely get that!

CONGRATS on losing so well. I bet you did feel like a new person after losing that much and feel so much better but let me ask----is the 30 gained back cause of lockdown about eating plant carbs? You went off plan? Or are you truly just eating so much meat and bacon and such in a day that you started gaining? And are you at goal now losing those lbs. or are you wanting more lbs. gone?

How did you originally go into zero carb? In that did you put yourself on omad or 2mad by design from the beginning? Like when most come into zero carb you need to eat all you need at all times when hungry, did you do that?

ugh, what I am trying to say is did you lose those lbs. eating ALL the meat and seafood you wanted in a day cause your body adjusted while you were on plan, or did you ‘do a zc eating designed plan’ right from the get-go?

I started and my personal experience was I was starving literally. I ate so much, 4-5-6 easily times a day and they were massive meals and I thought, omg! I was on strict zero carb forums, started with Charles Washington and that group etc. and I would as a gazillion questions on why I was so hungry and eating so much and it worried me but I was told over and over by all veterans, if you are hungry you eat. Never give it a second thought and it was a hard concept to accept LOL But of course I listened to the old guard on it all since I had no zc knowledge and just learned from all those veterans that been there, done that and I just ‘sank into zero carb’ very easily then. Took a long while to adjust but then I had that flip day of ‘I was a zc eater’ and ‘here I was’ LOL

I absolutely get that inflammation situation. I am the same. I smell a plant carb and I gain, I look at a potatoe and I gain HAHA I also feel it in joints if I get sneaky sugar into my day like if I eat out and hit that situation sometimes…so yes, I sure am there with WHY types like us do zero carb :slight_smile:

I ate so much bacon back in the day it is scary. Plus last night since I haven’t had bacon in a long time I ate a lb. of bacon with my 1.5 lb. NY Strip steak :money_mouth_face: And ya know I just have been walking away from bacon and depending on meat/seafood now. I stopped things like pepperoni and ‘hunks’ of cheese I used to rely on. Just thru time all this is kinda just dropping by the wayside but I sure depended on it when I started into this plan.

bacon is a sodium bloat for me but no other bad effects.

I find things like eggs useless. No hunger holding power for me. I could eat 10 eggs and feel like I ate nothing. I know thru my zc ways I require heavy beef all the time in my day. When I walk a bit, for variety or just not that hungry as we zc people get, I tend toward chicken or pork and it just never ever holds me like beef. So if I eat the other stuff, I make sure I always fall back onto massive beef in my days ahead to keep me from feeling ‘off on zc’ cause I can if I eat too lean or depend on processed stuff.

I found we zc people have to analyze a bit what our food does to us, in other words, I can eat a boatload of bacon because it is not dense fresh meat. It is a crispy greasy snack food to me and ‘not meal worthy’ ya know and things like pepperoni don’t ‘hold us’ at all. Many of us zc people need the big hitters. I must have 1-2 lbs of beef usually in my day for zc survival and stability of my body to do well. I only know this thru switching foods around and noting how I was effected.

even 3 lbs of bacon would not satisfy my body at all. yea, like you, I would be fine for a few hrs then I would be out hunting for a steak, no doubt about that for me also…we are the same on that LOL

I do me. How I must eat. I found now heading into year 4 of zero carb eating I ‘absolutely require’ my first meal to be hefty, at least a 1 lb. steak and then I have something with that, maybe a ‘side chicken breast’ or maybe shrimp/seafood and but no matter what I eat first in my day, the most important is a big old beef steak. I found I function to top effect doing just that for me. I found if I start my day eating like 2-3 chicken breasts along with bacon or maybe tuna or eating some pork etc. I grow hungry very fast later in the day.

so my personal savior thru all this is my body wants beef first thing to start my day. That steak might be followed by another steak on my second meal if I feel very hungry or since most times my second meal is the lighter one cause that steak nourished me so much, I tend to eat things like chicken or pork etc as my other meal for some variety I do want.

On weight I lost almost 60 fast but I wanted about 75-80 gone and that would be more than enough for me, not putting me rail thin ever, but taking alot of lbs off me to feel better and vanity sake, look better LOL
But into year 2 I lost nothing. I would gain and lose the same 5-6 lbs all thru that year but I never changed me eating ever. Into year 3 I lost nothing and then I ‘looked’ tighter at my eating and bacon started to disappear and I cut cheese back by alot and I watched my bite of this or that crappy food that would sneak into some of my days, being human I would love to take a spoonful of some potatoe dish I made for the family etc. but never ate more, but that spoonful of it never helped me. I found I needed dense beef meat to make me function best on this lifestyle. So I just kept observing what eat meat/fowl/seafood did to me and with that watchful eye found my best eating solutions that work for me.

I shored up my eating and watched what worked for me or what was weak for me. Beef, steaks satisfied me and made me wonderful and full and happy and energized. Pairing that with shrimp, scallops etc was even more wonderful! I went into chicken, pork, processed stuff like pepperoni, breakfast sausages, eating too much bacon as trying to sub it for a meal kinda thing I was more hungry all the time.

one thing I never did was not eat when hungry. that I do LOL but for many zc people that is the savior of the plan. We eat to heal the body as as it heals and we don’t manipulate that food request from our body, we change. And I changed just like the old timers said I would…but I still have to watch what meats I do eat cause they direct how I function.

Now I hit the 3.5 yr mark and started losing again. 1 lb a month give or take, sometimes 2 which is wonderful and it could easily take more than a year to lose my last vanity lbs I want gone but that is now not a priority for me. I feel so wonderful eating the beef I need and now my body is responding again and giving me some weight loss very slowly and of course the body composition is leaning out more so I am back into a great run of zc changing my body again. It surprised me I started losing again even if slowly, but was it really a surprise? Nah, cause that spoonful of food when cooking, or that 1 nibble of whatever on vacation or a few extra booze drinks while at an event etc. were the reason my body slowed and no losses. No gains, but sure no losses and I did feel ickier and more bloated and all that but never enough to worry on it so I keep my control of other junky eating very tight, but it still ruined me just enough ya know.

So when I shored it all back up. Went heavy beef eating everything came back in line for me. But this is my personal walk and others will vary on what it takes for them LOL but I think the whole thing is ‘find the meat’ that works best for you and thrive on it. ZC recommends beef as it suits most people best, has lowest interactions for our bodies and has that good fat/meat ratio to satisfy and nourish us. And I found that to be me also. I fall into what a typical zc person should be doing LOL and I like that tho…means it is easier on me to navigate this lifestyle actually.

I get you are worried about gaining, but the ‘fasting’ you are imposing on yourself could be the very reason you are more hungry. Plus of course like you said, boredom thru lockdown, stress thru horrible times about the world as a whole on what the future will bring, many of us have work and financial situations slapping us thru this pandemic and more but I think in the end, it is 100% about the food you do eat on zc that suits you and you can have all ya want on it. If you are ‘fasting’ more than your body is going back into a slower metabolism mode and it is starting to ‘starve’ because it is not getting what it is asking for…now when hungry if you give it 3 lbs of bacon that might not be what it wanted. It might have wanted just a 2 lb beef steak but we give it bacon and pepperoni and these are not dense fresh meats. Anything processed like bacon is not dense fresh meats. Heavy hitters, beef! Pork if you do well. Lamb, bison, deer etc. The big red meat hitters. well pork is white but you get my drift HAHA

this is all chat to you :stuck_out_tongue: about what it takes for me and I find the more we chat about how and why we are basing our zc eating actions and more then the better we find out about ourselves. More we might find a way to change this or that. You know all stuff to work for us and not against us. I love chatting zc and what it takes for others and what it takes for me and compare, but I only compare, I never follow how any one else eats truly. Never. I eat for me at all times.

earlier on zc I tried what others did a tiny bit and most would backfire. I tried to ‘extend fast’ a few days a couple times and omg it was a nightmare. I tried to ‘eat a ton of eggs and make that a meal’, heck no did not suit me at all. I tried bone broth etc and that was useless, gave me nothing, I need real meat to be happy on a zc lifestyle.

What surprised me too was that heading into year 4 my eating needs change still and there isn’t a doubt about that in my mind. Many ‘hit an eating plateau’ and do fine for years and years and I think I am heading into that but right now I am still flopping a bit on wanting beef or lighter meats/seafood but one thing I know about me, I function best on beef as my first meal so I do just that. It has made my life very stable now on plan and I like that.

it is fun chatting this stuff out with you :slight_smile:

(Kirk Wolak) #28

God no! I allowed dairy in, and it is inflammatory and triggered some addictive eating!
Simply too many calories, and OMAD/2MAD. I was kicked out of ketosis or BARELY in.
Plus losing the Gym/Destress, threw off my sleep.

I was also eating eggs… To which I know I have an allergy to the whites! But not eating plant stuff!

I struggled with Atkins/Keto in the past. Imagine following Atkins when you are allergic to vegetables, egg whites, most nuts, and even dairy. While I lost weight, I was unhealthy, and felt like crap. Then I eventually ran across the Plant Paradox by Dr. Gundry. This made me realize PLANTS could be a problem. Then the 3rd time I had gout and I was on steroids. I felt SOOO good. I asked the doc, he said it will kill me to stay on it. But it just removes inflammation… AND you are pre-diabetic, hypertensive, and morbidly obese at over 300 lbs.

Quickly I found Keto to reduce inflammation, but the same stupid 5g carb limit. Then anti-inflammation led me to Rogan/Peterson, then Mikhaila, then I was all in on trying only meat. It was a HUGE success. The weight fell off like 1-2lbs/day. I was full (not stuffed), I gave up soda, etc as I saw diet soda can mess with my glucose levels (Bastards! No Calaries does NOT MEAN No Effect).
Then I found Dr. Fung, and added fasting. the more fasting, the better I felt, the faster I healed. 7-8 months later, my A1C was 4.5 (Super Optimal), my BP was normal, no more snoring, sleeping better.

Yeah, I never followed that, per se, but I did spend a year eating daily, all ZC. But I gained weight the entire year. So Covid is NOT all of the 30 lbs. I put 20 lbs on before covid. The gal from “My Zero Carb Life” said she had to stop eating sausage and stick to burger patties because she would definitely over-eat sausage patties. And she knows is she is hungry for plain hamburger patties, especially cold ones, then she eats. [I kinda do the same thing. If I don’t feel “right” on a fast… I will eat!] But now working on NOT breaking a fast for Bacon/Pepperoni. Something boring like Hamburger or Sardines.

STRESS is another factor. It triggers cortisol, which pushes my glucose and then the crash. Then the hunger.

EXACTLY! I gave up alcohol after seeing how quickly the inflammation hits me from pure vodka.
So I don’t want to eat any other way.

And I fear that I am one of the few who has BP issues with high sodium. LOL, of course!
I LOVE fried SPAM but quickly realized I can’t tolerate it. Both the high sodium, and the inflammation and weight gain.

Agreed. I was doing 12 egg yolk omelets. I love eggs, but even that was too much egg white, and caused a massive visual migraine. But I was full! [pushing me to realize I do need the fat content]

Interesting. Thank you for sharing that. I am learning some of that as well. I am also learning to forgive myself if I need to eat twice in a day after 2 days of not eating. But it has taken me a YEAR to isolate many of the variables. Right now, I am BEEF only. [Ask me about my sous vide brisket, that eats like a steak, since I can’t do sauces/rubs, and gives me extra Fat Trimmings I air fry!]

Congrats on the weight lose. Huge applauds for sticking through it without losing weight.
My “reward” was the first time I FELT LIKE exercising for NO REASON other than HAVING ENERGY!

Yeah, this IS the point. My journey is mine. I am following a ZC path, but my STRIDE is different, and unique to me, and the phase I am in on this process. I totally respect that. That is where “Every Body is Different” comes from. What is a LEVER for me, might not be for you. And I know people who THRIVE on a mostly plant based with 1 small serving of meat/day. The guy Looks like Shawn Baker!

I think we are KINDRID souls in some ways. And we are showing different paths to the same destination. Look at the YEARS you have spent (me too), and realize this marathon is LIFE LONG!
If you are moving in the right direction at the end of every year, and enjoying it… You WILL stick with it!

The best thing I got for advice from my Fasting Coach… “Losing the weight is easy. Fixing your broken metabolism, and actually healing your gut/body and responses to foods… That takes YEARS!” he went on to say 3-6 years, and he was clear that he said this to ENCOURAGE me to have the mindset that I will fight this battle every day until my body changes. And typically once that happens, your habits have changed enough that you can lean on the changes, but have no desire to go back!

He was right. I am NOT going back. My mindset has changed. I am a carnivore.
I am 3 yrs in, and some things are better. But it takes MONTHS to experiment.
And DENIAL isn’t helping (Pork ribs are better than beef ribs), but pork is hard on me.
So, I will get better at making beef ribs. LOL.

It is a pleasure to share these things with you… Again, we share a lot in common with the journey.

I am hoping others stumble across this, and find useful footprints that make sense to them.

Happy Thanksgiving!

#29

You guys write interesting things…
Yep, find what food works. I don’t know how you guys eat a ton of bacon… I couldn’t eat 3 oz :smiley: I never made those crispy things but I seriously doubt I could eat much of it…
I can eat a huge amount of chicken and stay hungry (even if I eat more than what I feel like. I can get bored of chicken eventually). It’s okay as a small part of my meal though.
Eggs work well - of course 10 eggs wouldn’t be enough as it’s a tiny meal! :slight_smile: I need amounts of everything. But egg was my top satiating item on vegetarian keto. Then came all the good fatty meat that isn’t chicken (I never tried to get satiated with turkey. I guess it wouldn’t work either) - they are WAY better. But eating everything I like and have feels the best. I need variety.

Oh, someone is a hero compared to me (or desperate. that probably helps)! ONE type of food for the day. I so decided that many times but never could pull off. I just can’t eat a single type of food (except when I first ate beef after a super long time. that was a beef day :slight_smile: and I added a yolk as I just can’t have an eggless day, blasphemy!).

I still am unsure what is this active ketosis and why carnivore isn’t ketogenic or something but it’s not like I particularly care. I just want to feel right, actually.

#30

So very true what you said about it can take years to heal the metabolism, heal the hormone inbalances and then just ‘heal the insides’ that were damaged etc. ZC is a marathon for sure, many don’t get this. I didn’t at first, I expected ‘so much so fast’ from this eating plan, and don’t get me wrong, I got good results but I also realize NOW into years into this I am still ever changing, all good tho but one thing is I sure am learning what food works and what does not.

Key to me is beef. Like you. Pork I do well on and then I don’t do well on. I don’t know on that one LOL but I know a steak gives me everything I desire and need, every other meat gives me ok effects but never like what beef gives me.

I do well on seafood but of course that has to be a ‘side item’ to my food cause heck it wouldn’t hold me at all. With a steak, shrimp pairs so well and I feel like I eat a ‘decadent’ meal ya know and that makes me happy.

I gotta love my food to stay on any plan, thank goodness I am an ultimate meat hound :slight_smile:

I started on Atkins also! I only thrived on 'the original 1972 Atkins Induction phase and I never ate ‘that cup of salad’, I just ate the meats :slight_smile: but any time I tried to ‘climb the carb ladder’ I failed horribly…but while that didn’t work it did lead me straight into zero carb.

I like you KNOW zc ya know and are experimenting what will work for you! I am the same and I am SO narrow now on my food intake that I don’t have ‘that much experimenting’ left to do LOL I feel like Kelly H always geared at her McDonald patties and lived on those alot, I feel a darn regular old steak is my must have each day.

It is hard when some of us truly have to work zc harder than some others to find our sweet spot but we will never match with all med issues and more in our bodies obviously, so yea we have to do zc for us and work thru it all.

one thing tho I have to say, and you sound like me, nothing is gonna draw me off this plan ya know. I love it :slight_smile: and I never find just eating each day and finding my best way, I kinda don’t mind walking this path in the carnivore world at all. I feel safe here vs. being in plant carb land HA

edited to say all us zero carbers on this forum have a monthly challenge thread to chat everything zc, talk about what we need to make it work and just have fun learning about ourselves, so if ya wanna join come on in…the November monthly thread is called NoCarbvember…and we are going onto Dec. with ‘the twelves days of carnivore’ LOL but you would be with zc eaters and that is what we chat about and alot of smart people on the thread doing their own zc thing. :slight_smile:

(Kirk Wolak) #31

I am going there now.
Thank you!

I don’t consider myself “zc”, per se. But I really am.99% meat and animal fat.
Normally on Thanksgiving I would do some vegetables (Brocolli and Asparagus and Brussels Sprouts).
But this year I am fasting for a number of reasons. One of which is Blood work next week. So I am being super clean. And I love seeing NORMAL Blood Pressure.
Although, after my blood work, I am going to have some pork ribs and see what happens to my BP.
If it goes up, then I KNOW for certain it’s the pork, and not necessarily the processing (Bacon).

I needed a full week of solid (normal) BP numbers, and since I am doing a GTT (Kraft). I will get pushed around and kicked out of ketosis. (I have been asked to have 150g of carbs for the 2 days before). But a WEEK without headaches is wonderful!

(Karen) #32

What a great idea with the heart and liver. Do you use any particul animal? I do tolerate liver but not a huge fan. I buy it now and again when i think i ought to eat some for health reasons.

(KCKO, KCFO) #33

I like both beef and chicken hearts. All livers, chicken, pork, beef are the ones available to me. I also love chicken gizzards.

Beef or pork liver does best when only lightly cooked. It becomes like shoe leather quickly. Slice it into thin pieces and stir fry it quickly in butter or sesame oil for a real treat.