My daughter is new, extremely picky

(Jackie ) #1

Hi all,

My daughter has been on the weight roller coaster her entire adult life. She is 42. Had the sleeve done about 4 years go and did very well. Her mindset was that she never wanted to be fat again. Well, she fell off the wagon and gained back a lot of the weight…she said she was hungry all the time so she turned back to comfort eating…and her addiction to carbs. Her husband is religiously doing keto with my help…I keep him on track. She has decided to try it again. Major digestive issues, she now knows it’s the grains. The biggest issue is her limited “like list” of foods…NO avocados, she won’t eat plain Greek yogurt…I told her I would make her keto fudge…she said with no sugar it will be awful…it’s not. She is frustrated…any suggestions for an extremely picky eater?
Right now she has “sugar brain”. This is the toughest part…getting past the addiction…

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(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #2

My suggestion is tough love: There are consequences for everything you do or don’t. No one else is going to feel your pain. Grow up.

#3

I don’t consider your examples to be “picky”. I rarely eat avocados (only infrequently as guacamole) and have never eaten a (not high sugar) yogurt I’ve liked (Greek or otherwise). But I do like a “no bake cheesecake fluff” made with whipped cream, sweetener, and either mascarpone or ricotta cheese (might even work with cottage cheese).

But, other than that, it sounds like she is just making excuses not to try. Unless she’s on board, the process is likely to fail. I think you have to find foods she will like and eat.

I’d be interested in your recipe for keto fudge, though. My biggest foible for cooking is I don’t like complicated recipes.

As far as foods and recipes, I post a “boilerplate” of them on Reddit regularly, n the keto and diabetes groups. Maybe she can find something on it that piques her interest?

Some of the dessert-related YouTube channels I list have dozens, maybe even hundreds, of recipes.

#4

A determined one can change a lot. I understand it’s not easy but health is extremely important. I am not a disciplined one at all but I am health-conscious and if a woe clearly harms me, I don’t do it, I don’t even feel temptation if I need to sacrifice my health or well-being, it’s basic to me…

I wouldn’t eat avocado or yogurt either. Or green leaves. Most meat. But the list is long.
It’s no problem if one is choosy… And we don’t need to eat something just because it’s tasty and we liked it. I LOVED potatoes, pasta, apples… It’s zero sacrifice not eating them (well, I still eat apple but very little and very rarely as my body isn’t into all that sugar… and I hate feeling even a tiny bit off).

But it’s usually very important to love our woe. It seems, she needs some favorite keto dishes too. Aren’t some? There are so many great items on keto, I only use very tasty, awesome ones, nothing else. That’s why I don’t touch avocado, it’s like some watered grass to me :smiley: Yogurt is water with a little something too… I eat rich, tasty, fatty protein sources, mostly.

Many people feels sweets without sugar not the same at all, it’s about taste. It’s a bit odd that she says this without even tasting it… And our taste may change a bit. But mine never changed regarding sweeteners, I hate most of them, quite passionately :slight_smile: And it’s perfectly fine, I still can do keto. Even a restricted version, I never did the usual kind with everything.

Maybe she could do some healthy low-carb (if it is possible for her, some people need to go very low), not exactly keto? Keto is quite hard for most people I think, at least in the beginning (the beginning may last for long)… It IS somewhat restrictive even if one doesn’t necessarily feel so. High-carb, sugar and grains are bad for her, right, it doesn’t mean keto is the only woe she will feel okay and can lose fat - maybe keto isn’t even for her, at least the old style she used clearly wasn’t… Why was she hungry? It’s an important question. Maybe she did something wrong. But maybe keto macros can’t satiate her well… I experimented a lot to find my own style where I actually feel right and not restricted. Some people are “strong” and force themselves to do the first meal plan even if it’s not good for them…

So, I would start with the info WHAT she likes except very carby stuff.

Keto fudge is a “luxury item”, the woe clearly must be based on proper food. But I understand how useful sweets may be in some cases, I needed them in the beginning to keep my carbs low and balance out that my vegetable intake drastically dropped (that was the only negative point)… Very good sweets may be a big part of the diet, even… Not the fudge, though, more like very nutritious protein-rich ones. It’s still better to eat “proper” food but one should do what one can and if it choosing the smaller bad for a while, so be it.

#5

So make the stuff with fake sugar. The majority of people can’t go cold turkey. For people like her dirty keto is the way to get her up and running. Little by little you shift over. You’re not going to talk her into this or convince her of anything, she got SURGERY instead of loosing weight, working out, correcting diet… etc. That’s everything you need to know about how her mind is working. Gotta tailor the approach to each person. Trying to force something is just going to end in failure.

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #6

Like Michael says: Tough love.

Ask her " … with sugar " how is it working for you ? "

Google up some success stories with pictures…

Find a picture of her after she lost weight next to a picture of how she looks now…

Confront her with her health for the rest of her life…

(Bob M) #7

I think there are tons of recipes you could find that she would eat. Even our kids eat a lot of recipes. This is good:

This is great (best if you cook one day, eat the next):

It goes on and on…

And if you’re looking for sweet, it’s similar. I try to avoid these, as I still think it doesn’t help with overeating, and it has the capability of triggering me. And possibly causes an insulin response. I also avoid some of them due to high nut flours and nut butters, but I will partake sometimes.

There should be recipes out there she can eat.

(Bob M) #8

Drill sergeant Michael? :grinning:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #9

How does your daughter feel about bacon and eggs? About meat, poultry, fish? There are plenty of delicious keto foods available that don’t involve avocados or yoghurt. I know for a fact that Barnes and Noble in the U.S. carries a number of keto cookbooks, and I assume any other chain bookstore and Amazon must, as well. I bought a few and have enjoyed the recipes I’ve tried.

There is a Recipes forum on this site, which also has plenty of recipes. Not only that, but wwww.dietdoctor.com makes recipes available (for a small subscription fee, I believe), and there are plenty of other sites on the Internet with recipes. If your daughter likes Indian food, try the YouTube channel for Headbanger’s Kitchen. I believe the Keto Connect channel also provides recipes (if they are not in videos they are for sure on the Web site).

Ultimately, however, your daughter is either going to eat keto or have to cope with being ill and overweight. It’s kind of unfair, but life is like that. If I don’t like being dirty, I can wash myself, but if I don’t want to wash myself, then I have to stay dirty. If your daughter refuses to try the ketogenic diet, then at some point you are going to have to let her have her way. She’s an adult, and responsible for herself, after all. Perhaps when she sees how much you and your son-in-law enjoy your keto food, she may come round in the end, but also, perhaps not.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #10

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The view from down range.

(Wendy) #11

When I started Keto, one of my husbands rules were, " if I give him any trouble with what he cooked he wouldnt help" in nice words… because i was totally ready. I didn’t give him any trouble, since he was doing all the cooking. And he had already lost a sizable amount of weight. I too had multiple health problems. Alot of food sensitivity, and allergies. But i was desperate and in tears. 18 months later, i am glad I was serious and ready to to make that change. She is or will get there. Just be supportive and patient.

(Laurie) #12

Cold turkey might be the way to go. Keep it simple. Desserts and fancy recipes and “a few berries” can allow non-keto things to creep in. I know this from experience.

Now I just stick to the basics (meat, eggs, etc.). I eat very few vegetables, treating them as a condiment rather than a side dish.

I have some restrictions. For example, I can’t eat most beef or pork unless it’s been ground. So I can eat burger patties and pork sausage, but not steak or pork chops or a roast.

Even so, I can honestly say that I now enjoy my basic keto meals more than I used to enjoy my fancy low-carb recipes and sugar-free desserts. Just fried eggs or a couple of nice burger patties can be heavenly and satisfying. Tonight for supper I cooked six salmon patties and started eating. I stopped at two because that was enough. (The rest went in the fridge.) Yup, my supper was two salmon patties, and they were delicious and I was full.

For dessert? Some nice cheese. Or bacon or smoked salmon. Or maybe veggie sticks.

Your daughter doesn’t have to eat anything she doesn’t want to. But there is probably plenty she can eat.

Maybe your daughter isn’t ready for such simplicity. But it’s a thought. Good luck!

(Bob M) #13

A lot of us (including me) move this way, over time. This is basically how I eat.

When I started out, I tried to have some things that were more “normal”, like fake chocolate. Remember eating one small “chocolate” that was mainly maltitol, then two more because they were so good. After spending a day in the bathroom (maltitol is bad news for some of us), I realized that not all “fake” foods are good.

I still have fake stuff (eg, pizza, desserts) every once in a while, but what I’ve found is that real food is much better, and if I want something “dessert-y” or off-plan, I usually have the real version. But I’ve also been doing this almost 7 years, and it takes a while to build resistance to the call of carbs.

(Allie) #14

There’s plenty more she could eat that don’t include those things. Meat, fish, eggs. I don’t eat avocados and not yoghurt recently either, and wouldn’t waste my time making fudge.

#15

Me too, on my good days, at least…
And yeah, over time is important. I am quite sure I couldn’t do this right away even if I had the idea to swap vegetables with meat. I did what I could to keep my carbs somewhat low and feeling good enough so I don’t quit…
I don’t know such things as fake chocolate or fake desserts, mine are proper, improved versions of the “original”… Maltitol is bad, it’s good we have so many other options :slight_smile: Like, not using a sweetener but sometimes fruits work well too (I prefer lemon and banana, the typical is berries, I like raspberries myself since I feel them sweet. I never felt them sweet on keto, I just love carnivore, my off days are way better now).

“Real”, sugary food is MUCH worse to me. Totally inedible so I don’t even get tempted anymore. My sweetness perception and need changed drastically. Low-carb did a lot, maybe keto a little and my carnivore days did extremely much. My sweets shouldn’t be sweetened or just barely. I hate pancakes with flour and I only make carnivore ones nowadays. I am lucky :smiley: Maybe I am skilled at very slow self-brainwash :wink: There must be a nicer word… Self taste and perception modification?

#16

She is not ready.

It is her life, her body and her health. If she is not ready to take the wheels and steer her life in the direction of good health, that’s on her. You can’t keep trying to take the wheels on her behalf. It doesn’t work. The bulk of the effort you are putting in needs to come from her. I do admit it is difficult to watch someone you love make unhealthy choices…but you can’t force anyone to make good choices if they wont try.

There are a myriad of keto recipes) products that can help her transition during the first few months. Millions of people around the world have done it. She just needs to want it.

(Khara) #17

:grimacing: “Pickiness” is an excuse and the addiction talking. Drop the keto books (unless you are reading for yourself :nerd_face:). You can’t fix her and you can’t do this for her. She’s got to want it and then do it on her own. Likely she’s got to reach a point where she’s desperate for change and willing to surrender; to finally become ready to do the work and take back control of her own life. She needs to find her own way and no one but her can find it. Helping her, making it easier for her, likely will just delay her finding her true path. And if she doesn’t do this on her own, your help can even end up diminishing her own sense of success when it comes.
Step back, detach from her choices, and just give her your support and love. Tell her you believe in her and trust she can do this. Allow her the dignity to flounder around and find what she needs for herself. Really, none of us know what’s right for her life. Be there for her wherever she is on her journey.

#18

I like that saying "“If you love someone let them go”.

Another I like is “Help is the sunny side of control”.

(Allie) #19

Not heard that before but oh yes, so true! I know so many people affected by this.

#20

Does your daughter understand the mechanisms behind keto?

One thing that I’ve observed offline (because people online seem to be well read and invested in the mechanics of the diet) is that one person hears about keto, researches it, acts on it and has great success.

They then tell someone else, who gets the basics of it - but, perhaps like the situation with your husband, requires someone more well read to keep saying, “Yeah, you can have that, or a little of that, but don’t touch that,” - because they don’t understand some of the finer details.

I think the rest of the posters are correct when they say that your daughter has to want to make the change, but I also wonder if some of your daughter’s resistance is if she doesn’t wholly understand how keto works.

Rather than seeing this as a great opportunity to eat some wonderful - and usually ‘restricted’ - meals, such as lamb or beef rump steaks cooked in butter, or a burger topped with quality cheese and bacon, it seems that she’s focused on what she will lose instead.

Keto, to me, is not about what I can’t have - it’s about what I can have, but given that we’re all so indoctrinated with the food pyramid and slogans such as ‘5 fruits and vegetables a day’ and the standard western diet, moving to keto is a real mindshift.

The first few weeks feel like you’re fighting with yourself - for example, when you swap a bowl of strawberries with a smidgen of cream for a bowl of cream with a smidgen of strawberries.

The biggest change I struggled with was that I’d always cooked meat or oily fish in about 6ml of oil - and by the time any vegetables made it to the pan, the oil was long gone; I was essentially dry frying or adding some water to steam in the wok.

Having ditched the accompanying carbs, I now cook in 30-40ml of oil instead. I have far fewer vegetables, but they’re incredibly delicious because of how they’re cooked.

Pre-keto, there’s no way I could’ve cooked the meat/vegetables in such a manner - so being able to recognise what I am able to have and do is really exciting.

I think your daughter knows she needs to do something, and it probably all just feels overwhelming. It’s difficult, when you’re fully hooked on sugar, to accept that this is pretty much the end of the line for that way of eating - that you won’t have a doughnut on the way to work, or a chocolate bar at break. At that point, it seems impossible - but a few weeks into keto, your body doesn’t need it and doesn’t crave it. It’s just getting there.

As the others have said, it’s painful to watch someone you love making choices that you don’t agree with, but you can’t force the change.

If your daughter does want to give it a go, then I would suggest that she watches some of the videos or reads some of the literature to make sure she understands how it works.

You could help her by sitting down together and making a list of all of the meals that genuinely excite her - flipping the focus to what she can have is more likely to succeed than her focusing on what she can’t have, or both of you trying to find ways to circumvent the diet to mimic the foods she used to eat.

Best of luck; it’s a horrible position for you both to be in.