My calcium score result


(Omar) #3

Thank you Paul


(Denise) #4

Read here on Sitting on Middle Ground Omar:

https://www.premierhealth.com/news-and-events/news/news-release/2020/03/10/coronary-artery-calcium-scoring-a-vital-part-of-heart-disease-prevention


(Omar) #5

Very brief but informative article

thanks


(Omar) #6

Very relieved with the result

My brother who is 2 years younger than me has very bad blockage of the artery. We have same living habits and environment. He went through several heart surgeries to clear the plaque or whatever they have to do to allow sufficient blood flow (I did not ask about the details)

He used to take lots of calcium supplements and when I asked him why, he said he feels better.

I came across some articles that warns against calcium supplements, also Dr Berg advised taking vitamin K2 and vitamin D to place the calcium away from the arteries.

But have no clue if this is related to my brother issue or not.


(Bob M) #7

It might be, but without some type of long term study (which we’ll never get), we’ll never know.

Like you, I’ve heard that taking calcium can be bad, without vitamin D and K2. Is that true? I don’t know. I do know I never take calcium supplements and do take vitamin D and K2. My CAC score was zero (almost 2 years ago now). Did my regimen help? Again, no idea.


(Joey) #8

@Alpha I’d say that’s an excellent outcome. There’s been a lot of exchange on this topic, including the dangers of calcium supplementation and the benefits of K2 + D3 in addressing arterial calcification.

I’ll refer you to a thread (admittedly one that I’d initiated) where a lot of info gets referenced…

Again, given your results I’d be thrilled!

Best wishes :vulcan_salute:


(Omar) #9

Interesting and encouraging

I did not know that you can lower calcium plaque


(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #10

With the right diet, and with enough of vitamins D and K, sure!

The researchers Uffe Ravnskov and David Diamond hypothesise that arterial damage is occurring all the time, and arterial plaque is part of the healing response. The trouble comes when the rate of repair can’t keep up with the rate of damage.

A researcher by the name of George Mann did a study of Maasai tribesmen who had remained on their traditional diet. Even taking EKG’s, he could find no sign of arterial damage or other heart trouble, except possibly in one man with an ambiguous EKG, out of the 400 or so that he examined. Their diet was mostly meat, milk, and blood. Their relatives who had moved to the city and adopted the standard Western diet were riddled with heart disease and all the other problems we are currently plagued with.

So if Ravnskov and Diamond are correct, then the Maasai on the traditional diet were experiencing arterial damage, but it was healing with no sign left behind. I find this a highly encouraging thought.


(Joey) #11

Many believe that the “healing” takes the form of calcification - such that signs of calcium deposits are a mixed blessing (bad news: signs of past soft plaques that don’t appear on a CT scan; good news: evidence of repair process underway).

Reversing and reabsorbing those hard calcified plaques is where current opinions still seem to differ. (My own personal n=1 experience would suggest they can indeed be reabsorbed.)

Certainly one wouldn’t want to have unrepaired soft plaque damage. Then again, the best situation would be no damage at all.

The key: a CT scan (on which Agatston CAC Scores are derived) cannot detect the more dangerous soft plaque which can come loose and cause life-threatening blockages. It only detects calcified plaques (which are being hardened and stabilized from wandering off through the blood stream).

Needless to say, too much calcification accumulating in the same spot can begin to cause bloodflow restriction (inviting images of the otherwise-discredited “plumbing” model of heart disease). Not a good outcome either. :roll_eyes:


(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #12

That’s what you’d think, but the body is a dynamic process, and it does make a certain amount of sense that the arteries (which are under a great deal of pressure, literally speaking) might live in between the tension of damaging processes and healing processes. That would be similar to a dynamic known to exist in bones; bones can be damaged by too much stress, of course, but they actually thrive and are healthiest on the right amount of stress.

And your experience of a declining calcium score is what, from reading posts on these forums, I thought was normal and to be expected. Interesting that you know of researchers who don’t consider it possible. I thought improved arterial flow from an LCHF/keto diet was documented.

Also, the impression I’ve gained is that (again, assuming Ravnskov and Diamond are correct), when we eat the proper human diet, arterial damage doesn’t get bad enough to need calcification in the first place.


(Joey) #13

To clarify, I’ve personally not read research asserting it is not possible to reverse calcification. However, this had been (still is?) the received conventional belief spouted throughout the cardiology community for decades: “Agatston CAC Scores will go up over time, or at best, stabilize - reversal not possible.”

This “empirical wisdom” probably reflects observations from the vast majority of SAD-eating patients, for which such deteriorating health trends are rampant.

But reversibility is clearly possible … or my most recent CAC score was grossly in error. (Or perhaps my previous series of increasing scores over time were in error?)

What I found to be quite fascinating (and of great concern!) was that even after cutting out the carbs, my CAC scores continued to rise (as did my wife’s). My putative explanation (and hope) was that the rising calcification was evidence of healing, not further soft plaque damage.

Having stayed the keto course and supplemented heavily with K2 and D3 (+ lots of sunshine), my CAC score then was sharply reduced and my wife’s stabilized. This supports my hypothesis that the trajectory of calcification was catching up with decades of pre-keto soft plaque damage that remained undetectable via CT scans (i.e., it is not echolucent, unlike calcium which is echolucent.).

As for improved arterial flow through LCHF/keto being documented, I was unaware of this. (Although I can envision many reasons besides reduction of calcification that could promote improved circulation.)


(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #14

Yeah, and Type II diabetes is also progressive and irreversible, lol! :rofl::rofl:

I believe you were probably right.

Granted, it takes a long time for healing to occur. An ocean liner has a much, much larger turning radius than a 40-foot sloop. Moreover, it is entirely possible that some damage could simply be irreversible. But given that the research done in the past fifty years has been done on a population of unhealthy people, we may just find that the rules are quite different when people eat the proper human diet. I would certainly like that to be the case, anyway!


(Alec) #15

You’ve been listening to Dr Ken! :joy::+1:


#16

I wish my CAC was that low at age 63. Remember that the goal is to keep it from getting worse or at least slowing any progression over time. Good luck.


(Denise) #17

Can’t agree more, my levels for a C-Peptide were good, but after speaking to a different Cardiologist, and telling him I was told mine were perfect, he shook his head saying not they’re not perfect but they’re ok.

I wish I knew better how to read ALL my own labs. I’ll put my C-peptide test results here, and see if anyone is around that knows from their own experience with the tests:


(Joey) #18

Here’s yet another goal to explore: Reduce your CAC score. Food for thought. :vulcan_salute:


(Alec) #19

I am sure I read some time back that someone said they have done this…. But I can’t remember who… if anyone has reduced their CAC score, can you pls explain how you did it?


(Joey) #20

Yup, that was me. See #8 post in this thread. :wink:


(A fool and his bacon are soon parted) #21

There was some talk about this on the forums a few years ago. I don’t remember names, just that people stressed that vitamins D and K were essential to persuading the calcium to go back into the bones. I have the impression that it’s not a speedy process, either.

And of course, a ketogenic diet is essential, as well, because it was the carbohydrate intake and the interference by elevated insulin that caused the arterial damage in the first place. (Or if Ravnskov and Diamond are right, it sped up the rate of damage beyond normal to the point that calcification became necessary as part of the repair process.)


(Germaine M Schweibinz) #22

That’s a great score, wish mine was like that.