Yes, I know there are cases when one’s health determines one’s WOE, to various degrees. And some people want perhaps a combination of improving their health in general as well as losing weight. We all have our reasons for doing what we do. I understand some people can only eat meat and then some people can only eat plant-based foods, whereas in my case I have very little idea at this point which foods benefit me, obviously I remain abstinent from sugar and processed food, but I just can’t do that elborate body scan and immediately know what works for me, so the only way to find out is through some experimentation and giving one’s particular WOE enough time to assess. It’s not the end of the world if somewhere halway down that road we have to stop and reassess. All we can do in the end of the day is experiment because we’re not oracles. We don’t have all the answers. And unfortunately, science, so much bias involved there, is often misleading. In the long term who can say what is the right thing? Personally I am not following science so much as my own body’s desires at this point. My body is, however, inching more and more towards carnivore. Perhaps it’s just the simplicity of it, less cooking involved lol. But I’d say I’m down to about 5-10 total carbohydrates at this point, and I kind of add the tiny amount of nuts or vegetables still, more out of habit than anything else it seems.
Hey Fangs, can you post some links to the science? Are you talking about eating like Michael eats? Or saying eating e.g. beef will tick every micronutrient box? I’m assuming micronutrients is what you’re meaning when you use the word complete?
Hey Septimius, I meant to ask you when this thread was current - what was in the 5% you dropped? What differences did you experience when you went 100%? What is included in your 100%?
Ahh ok, so you eat very low carb. There’s no such thing as being 80% carnivore by the way.
Yes I think that was just my own spin on it, as for me nothing is set in stone and there are no absolutes. I meant more I am perhaps 10 or 20% away from carnivore as I believe that can be a process, I am definitely craving far fewer carbs than when I began my WOE so who can say what my body will desire in the future.
Fangs is reiterating the agriculture industry’s propaganda of “high value protein”
The definition of meat as a complete food is primarily due to the fact that beef contains all the amino acids the human body needs, in all the correct proportions. So all the protein can be fully used by the body. In contrast, many plant foods have incomplete amino acid profiles, which limits their usefulness to the human body to the amount provided by the least-abundant amino acid (though the amino acids in a plant-based diet can be improved by properly combining foods). In any case, when the U.S. dietary guidelines refer to “high-quality reference protein,” it is beef that they are referring to. Other sources of protein are judged in comparison to the amino acid profile of beef.
Beef also contains, or should contain, the vitamins and minerals the human body needs. Vitamin B-12 is one of the vitamins that practically has to come from meat, since it is found in very few plants.
Hey Paul, it definitely doesn’t contain all the vitamins and minerals the human body needs. The question is: how important is that? I have no idea. It may well be a n=1 issue. Thanks for explaining what is meant by complete.
That is actually open to question. For example, fresh meat prevents scurvy, with no need for added Vitamin C in the diet. This has been known for centuries. Whether meat contains Vitamin C (it is assumed not to, so they never test for it) and that is enough, or whether there is some other mechanism going on, exogenous Vitamin C becomes unnecessary on a diet that includes fresh meat.
Our concern for getting enough Vitamin C began with the British Navy two-and-a-half centuries ago, which found it far easier to stock lemons and limes than livestock on board those cramped wooden sailing ships. Since the advent of electrical refrigeration and generated power, getting enough Vitamin C on a long deployment at sea has stopped being a concern.
Moreover, there are studies published by the researcher Eric Verdin that suggest that one of the reasons people on a well-formulated ketogenic diet do not need exogenous Vitamin C is that β-hydroxybutyrate, one of the main ketone bodies, deactivates a gene complex, activated by elevated insulin, that inhibits our endogenous defences against oxidation; the β-hydroxybutyrate thus renders exogenous Vitamin C unnecessary.
Researchers who study the ketogenic diet are now beginning to speculate that similar things might hold true with other nutrients and hormones. And it is a valid concern that most of the RDA’s were determined on a population that is largely metabolically dysfunctional, so who knows what they should be, when we eat the proper human diet.
take ya a while LOL BUT SO worth ALL the correct science here.
I mean protein only from meat source, seafood/red meat/ fish and fowl is totally complete for all nutrition for survival. We require NO other carb ever in our lives for total survival and life. Simple as that.
but who we are coming into this meat protein/fat lifestyle will mean what it require for us to heal/repair/change/adapt/transition and go into total health factors for each of us.
Complete life on this planet for humans is meat protein (being best source cause it gives us ALL when we value it against plant protein and just the real fat in our meat protein sources.
but life is warped health wise for many now in this age and coming in very sickly and on prescip meds and more so while we know one thing is real…meat protein best and fat intake is all we require cause it gives us ALL, who are we coming in and what extras do we need to get thru adaption and thru detox and changes as an individual? can vary tons on this one.
Yea I’ve read similar. However we don’t know yet what and how much most people eating carnivore need. Or any other metabolically healthy woe. Re the RDAs - aren’t they set at levels needed to prevent various deficiency based diseases/conditions?
Mind you, it’s all just academic to me. Something I’m mildly curious about but not too bothered about at the moment personally.
we do know but a science study page will never fit each individual. will never happen point blank cause it can’t exist.
plan concept which suits darn near all of us if we allow it.
eat meat/seafood fish and fowl, all ya want, as you need it, adapt and change, then we find ourselves more clearly on this lifestyle and if it suits us.
Most fall into 1.5-2 bls up to 3 lbs meat per day. Other than that it can vary ON TIME ON PLAN. that is key. One who is 3-4 months in might be eating 3-4 lbs easily, then the next week they only want like 2 lbs per day or then they change up to like 1 lb a day, eating lighter cause the body is healing/repairing more and not demanding.
most of us fall into 1.5-2.5 lbs per day as our usual in life, got thru adaption/transition time and put time onto the plan over a year.
ZC says 90 trial. Most won’t even attempt 30 but at least 90 is key and then even a 6 mos. zc lifestyle will show a person WAY more…but we know no one wants to commit that long ever right? everyone wants instant gratification
thing is it is whacky and OFF in our brains how we find our appetites changing on zc. Key being one must walk at least a year easily into this to learn of these changes, if one is less than that, they might never even know these changes will exist for their bodies.
time on zc is key to it all…commitment to eat the plan clean also.
just chat on it
It must be though (or some people create the rest) as several people proved that it’s possible to live on meat only for several years.
And as far as I know it does have everything essential, I don’t know if the amounts are always right enough so it’s easy to get everything for even someone who doesn’t need to eat very much. I don’t care about it as it’s proven meat can be enough but not everyone is like that and I never want to eat meat only anyway. Hopefully the carnivores (I never want to be one personally, just staying close) or someone else can tell more.
Do you know an essential nutrient that can’t find in meat when one eats a decent amount of it?
Part of the picture is that not eating plants changes our nutrient needs like our Vitamin C need becomes so little that it’s easy to get from meat. (Though there are conditions, meat cooked or dried in a way that the Vitamin C content is zero or almost zero obviously can’t work. Carnivores still need some Vitamin C but not for every function omnivores do so the need is significantly smaller.) I only know this example but probably some other needs change too.
Of course, meat isn’t needed as there is nothing essential we can’t get from other items. It’s good we have options so there isn’t a single food group we definitely need for health. If we are healthy enough, that is. In a pinch, both vegetarianism and the carnivore diet would work for me.