Modern “Carnivore Diet” is Not Ancestral

science

#21

AGREED! I think we’re probably getting a lot more screwed from the hormones and antibiotics than we are from some grain pre slaughter.

I’d (think) and I’m no professional here, but would assume that all the breeding would be done when young and by the time they’re getting ready to head to a slaughterhouse all that would be out of the way so much of the damage (may) not be affecting future generations at least from the grain perspective. I actually work with a guy who’s family owns a cattle farm I’ll see what I can find out. They breed and raise them, nothing to do with slaughtering or finishing. So THINK about that! They own a fleet of cattle, and have to buy steaks at the butcher! It’s so wrong.


(KetoQ) #22

lfod –

Makes sense, but it appears ranchers keep the cows 6-12 years, as they can generate an annual revenue stream. Meanwhile, you only need one genetic freak bull to keep all the cows pregnant. I guess its the bulls that get slaughtered.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #23

Even as recently as the 1800’s, Laura Ingalls Wilder wrote how her parents would use everything of the animals they slaughtered, from head cheese to trotters.


(bulkbiker) #24

Me too in fact we had some half wagyu from a very posh butcher here in the UK and it was horrible even after a decent bath… stringy, tough and full of sinew… obviously we got the non wagyu bit!


#25

Believe it or not, grain is a natural part of a cow’s diet.

Cows eat grass.
What is grain? Grass seed.
When the grass goes to seed, cows eat that too. They aren’t chugging it down CAFO style, but they fatten up on significant amounts of grain naturally.


(Running from stupidity) #26

Yes, but “part of” and “entirely” are somewhat different things.


#27

Read the next paragraph. You stopped reading before finishing the post.


(Ken) #28

Coming from a family where half of it has fed beef cattle, I can assure you that you currently hold misconceptions about how beef cattle are fed when being finished.

The major part, or Base of their diet is some type of plant material. In Iowa it’s usually.silage. After silage is spread into the bunks it’s topped by a mixture of cattle feed,ear corn and shelled corn, all chopped together in a Ginder-Mixer. So, a finishing diet includes all sorts of stuff, mainly to provide quite a bit of fiber to aid the rumiation process, a process that could not be healthy for the animal if it was only fed grain.


(Chris) #29

Which cows are entirely fed on grains for their entire life cycle? Most cows if not ALL in the US spend most of their life on grass of some kind and only the last couple months on grain for fattening.


(Bunny) #30

I wonder if that’s where the animal starts becoming more of a saturated type body fat? I’m so curious about this? Compared to eating the meat of a wild predatory; more carnivorous animal/fowl or a more herbivorous* wild animal/fowl? (*herbivorous: feeding on more varieties of forage, bugs, small critters and marine-life etc)

I am still trying to figure out if the “several” types of heavy plant based carbs the animals eat (in domesticated live-stock, poultry etc. that “aid” the “rumination process”) some how effect our biology (bio-physiochemistry)?

e.g. more polyunsaturated fatty meat, bad to cook with at high temperatures (better when eaten raw), more saturated fatty meat; better for cooking (less oxidation/rancidness or less missing electrons when heated)?

I cannot believe that I cannot find any information on this subject anywhere except a few specks here and their?

This is a really really fascinating subject to explore?

The variables (the dice; ancestral {natural origin; organic} vs. domesticated):

  1. Mono (singular (less) hydrogen atoms and carbon molecular bonds)

  2. Poly (mixture of a variety of different types of hydrogen atoms and carbon molecular bonds)

  3. Saturated (of an organic molecule; containing the greatest possible number of hydrogen atoms, and so having no carbon–carbon double or triple bonds.)

  4. Unsaturated (of organic molecules; having carbon–carbon double or triple bonds and therefore not containing the greatest possible number of hydrogen atoms for the number of carbons.) • denoting fats containing a high proportion of fatty acid molecules with at least one double bond, considered to be healthier in the diet than saturated fats.

  5. Sterols (plant/phyto vs. animal)

  6. Hydrogenated (charge with or cause to combine with hydrogen. “…a process that changes a liquid oil into a solid or hydrogenated fat…”)


(Bunny) #31

…then their is the use of bio-accumulates by the agricultural and farming industries like GMO’s, hormones, antibiotics and God knows what else?

Monsanto (mixing the DNA of fish with plants to resist chemical weed-killers) bio-accumulation of round-up weed killer; herbicides (full of kidney destroying glyphosates {this stuff loves to go after the kidneys}; a chelation agent that strips the body of its vital minerals and rare trace elements faster than it can be replenished) fungicides and pesticides/insecticides (conversion in the bodies physiochemistry {estrobolome} to xenoestrogen or exogenous bad estrogens) and since agricultural ground soil is stripped of its organic sulfur (how you get fat soluble bio-accumulates out your body; from fat solubility to water solubility) and selenium, and replaced with chemical fertilizers, is it NO WONDER? why some diabetics lose the kidneys do to renal failure (even if they cut out the carbs and sugars?) and in-furtherance bio-accumulates are an additional contributor to obesity acting as an obesogen (causes obesity)?

But who really cares?


(Mark Rhodes) #32

I was listening to @amber on Diet Doctor and she said very similar things to you Bunny. https://youtu.be/Lb7mnxv3hMA

She also questioned how we could know what the ancestral diet could be and we shouldn’t assume that it was head to tail as the common phrase goes now.

This article is an indepth look at opportunistic eaters…meaning whatever was easiest to eat.


(Mark Rhodes) #33

Phinney and Volek in A&S of LC Performance say that the approximate composition of subcutaneous adipose tissue is :

But they do not notate or reference this info.


(Bunny) #34

It is definitely nose-head-to-tails with the traditional Eskimo ancestral diet and raw at that!

image


220px-Vilhjalmur_Stefansson

I see a lot of people reference Vilhjalmur Stefansson (pictured above) as a reason for the science behind the carnivore diet however the presumption centers around saturated fats, but what is misunderstood is that what the Inuit Eskimo diet actually consisted of was rich in polyunsaturated and unsaturated fats from the wild undomesticated game for sources of sustenance that includes the fat of wild land mammals and ocean mammalian marine-life and fish like whale skin rich in collagen, and the unsaturated, polyunsaturated fat from polar bears, seals, whales, caribou etc. this is not the same thing as eating mostly saturated fatty meat?

Highly refined sugar and highly processed carbohydrates do not mix with any kind of high fat intake[1] which seems to be the real culprit or maybe it is safe to say ‘is’ the culprit with the Inuit eating half traditional and half modern diets[2]?

References:

[1] Disorders of Lipid Metabolism By G.V. Marinetti (screen shots)

[2] “…Fats have been demonized in the United States, says Eric Dewailly, a professor of preventive medicine at Laval University in Quebec. But all fats are not created equal. This lies at the heart of a paradox—the Inuit paradox, if you will. In the Nunavik villages in northern Quebec, adults over 40 get almost half their calories from native foods, says Dewailly, and they don’t die of heart attacks at nearly the same rates as other Canadians or Americans. Their cardiac death rate is about half of ours, he says. As someone who looks for links between diet and cardiovascular health, he’s intrigued by that reduced risk. Because the traditional Inuit diet is “so restricted,” he says, it’s easier to study than the famously heart-healthy Mediterranean diet, with its cornucopia of vegetables, fruits, grains, herbs, spices, olive oil, and red wine. A key difference in the typical Nunavik Inuit’s diet is that more than 50 percent of the calories in Inuit native foods come from fats. Much more important, the fats come from wild animals. Wild-animal fats are different from both farm-animal fats and processed fats, says Dewailly. Farm animals, cooped up and stuffed with agricultural grains (carbohydrates) typically have lots of solid, highly saturated fat. Much of our processed food is also riddled with solid fats, or so-called trans fats, such as the reengineered vegetable oils and shortenings cached in baked goods and snacks. “A lot of the packaged food on supermarket shelves contains them. So do commercial french fries,” Dewailly adds. Trans fats are polyunsaturated vegetable oils tricked up to make them more solid at room temperature. Manufacturers do this by hydrogenating the oils—adding extra hydrogen atoms to their molecular structures—which “twists” their shapes. Dewailly makes twisting sound less like a chemical transformation than a perversion, an act of public-health sabotage: “These man-made fats are dangerous, even worse for the heart than saturated fats.” They not only lower high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL, the “good” cholesterol) but they also raise low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL, the “bad” cholesterol) and triglycerides, he says. In the process, trans fats set the stage for heart attacks because they lead to the increase of fatty buildup in artery walls. Wild animals that range freely and eat what nature intended, says Dewailly, have fat that is far more healthful. Less of their fat is saturated, and more of it is in the monounsaturated form (like olive oil). What’s more, cold-water fishes and sea mammals are particularly rich in polyunsaturated fats called n-3 fatty acids or omega-3 fatty acids. These fats appear to benefit the heart and vascular system. But the polyunsaturated fats in most Americans’ diets are the omega-6 fatty acids supplied by vegetable oils. By contrast, whale blubber consists of 70 percent monounsaturated fat and close to 30 percent omega-3s, says Dewailly. Omega-3s evidently help raise HDL cholesterol, lower triglycerides, and are known for anticlotting effects. (Ethnographers have remarked on an Eskimo propensity for nosebleeds.) These fatty acids are believed to protect the heart from life-threatening arrhythmias that can lead to sudden cardiac death. And like a “natural aspirin,” adds Dewailly, omega-3 polyunsaturated fats help put a damper on runaway inflammatory processes, which play a part in atherosclerosis, arthritis, diabetes, and other so-called diseases of civilization. …More


(bulkbiker) #35

Everything with fat in it contains all three in differing proportions…
It is impossible to eat only saturated fat as it comes along with poly and mono and possibly some trans fats too. It really annoys me when people talk about “eating saturated fat” as if this was possible by eating a steak.


(Bunny) #36

Sorry but the ratios are not the same as wild animals (“eating naturally”) from an ancestral perspective! :rofl:

More saturated fat! :upside_down_face:

People only get “annoyed” when the science does not measure up to their presumptuous expectations?

Notice your chart “lean only” and “cooked?”


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #37

Sure it is; that’s why we’re not supposed to eat steak, lol! #ARTERYCLOGGINGSATURATEDFAT