Eating ketogenic diet, in some point will trigger the fat burning switch, which comes with well known benefits.
Low carb diet however, that is my main focus here, is where I’m not quite sure of, and would like hear your inputs on.
Three years ago, learning from the fantastic 2KetoDudes podcasts and this amazing forum, I started a hard-ruled ketogenic diet for three months, to prove it’s safety, as I was going to recommend it to a close relative who has T2D.
Long story short, my three months has become three years and counting and I bet many many of you could guess why. Just the taste of ketogenic food is enough to encourage me not to stop.
My A1C has always been below 5.2, based on my annual test I have had, hence I was only going to do the initial three months for recommending sake. Although I carried on with the diet, I had immense pressure, negatively, from my close family and relatives, because of their fear of fat and fear of change I suppose, which I believe most of us here have experienced it in some point if not for a while. It is not pleasant to experience it, as it is almost like being bullied. So from last year I dropped back to low carb instead, purely because I haven’t had to worry about my blood glucose level plus It reduced the negative pressure as it was mentally really unhealthy.
That brings me to my first point which is, now that I am eating low carb, with daily carb intake of mostly below 80 gram, by avoiding all the normal off the ketogenic menu, how am I benefiting from my diet other than not having to worry about high glucose surges in my blood that I used to have due to my normal western diet despite A1C <5.2 during a test for example?
Is my body likely burning glucose for fuel instead of fat as I’m on low carb instead of ketogenic? Or is possible that my body’s is potentially started with glucose burning when I switched to low carb but because of gradual weight loss, I have actually switched to fat burning which it comes with making ketones and therefore is a good news. I am 6 feet high and my weight was 85kg three years ago, when I used to eat a lot snacks during the day with some cakes after dinner plus a lot of carb for my meals, and it has gradually come down to 77kg recently. Not fussed about my weight, just mentioning it to give a picture but this gradual downward, that has never happened since I was 23 years of age, is looking like a signal of my body’s burning fat instead of glucose.
So now my question, finally, is this model of eating beneficial and I should continue or is there something that I’m not aware and perhaps you could educate me and potentially prevent me from some future health events. After all I really don’t want to be the only person among the large numbered relatives who eats and advocates ketogenic/low carb but ends up with some health issues.
Metabolic switch
Personally, I think being in ketosis consistently is the best way to go. Our Pleistocene ancestors evolved in an environment that necessitated long-term, constant ketosis. Our ancestors probably lived 90%+ of their lives in ketosis. It’s healthy and it’s natural/normal. So we’re adapted for that. Not glycolysis. Even so…
Yes, you’re fine. Actually, you’re in Maintenance, where your body comfortably switches between Lipolysis and Lipogenesis at will. As long as that continues, your liver glycogen will not fill up, which if it would become chronic would put you back on the path of negative readaptations. You can also use a little longer time frame to do it, i.e. having more carbs for a day or two, as long as you then cut back to lipolytic levels to allow any stores of glycogen to be used up. It is unnecessary to chronically keep carbs at keto levels, and can be detrimental in some cases as far as metabolic function, a fact denied by many, even after symptoms occur. Fortunately it doesn’t require a lot of carbs to prevent this, and keeping them either low and/or infrequent maintains optimum health.
In my n=1 experiment for nearly a year now, eating Keto has reversed my type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, obese to normal weight, energy has returned, fatty liver gone, i feel better, gone from XL clothes to medium, sleep better, no more medications. What more needs to be said?
Maybe I will be dead in 30 years, but it won’t be from diabetes or deranged metabolic syndrome.
Many people are fine on low-carb so I doubt there is some hidden danger lurking around in normal cases… I loved low-carb (below 80g net carb) and couldn’t go lower for years let alone extremely low but personally for me, going really low is where real changes happen. Significantly below my ketosis carb limit, ketosis gave me fat adaptation but most of my problems stayed with me, it felt just like low-carb, just harder. By the way, if my drastically changed hunger is what signals I became fat adapted… Then low-carb never could undo it. So there is a difference between low-carb while not fat-adapted and low-carb while fat-adapted. The latter was way better.
I read zillion stories during my last decade… Some people needs more carbs than others. Or don’t need but handle them well. I am quite sure low-carb is ideal for many. It’s a complex thing, even if the body prefers something, there are mental and other things. Your family situation is very unfortunate, it’s so horrible that people act like that! I don’t know exactly how but it you feel pressured, that’s way, way too much. It’s your life, your health and no one has the right to go between you and your ideal woe. My family was against my woe too in the past, I just couldn’t care less. I am super good at being hedonistic, selfish and stubborn. And my Mom was on my side so I was lucky.
If keto is really good for you, you should do it. But I understand if it causes so severe stress that it doesn’t worth it in the end. But the stress should be removed/mitigated, not you putting up with a less ideal woe. If low-carb is that for you. It’s hard enough to find our sweet spot and stick to it, other, ignorant people messing with it is just too much 
It’s very sad to read such stories
Of course, it’s not all about the carbs only. I can easily imagine unhealthy low-carb diets… I wonder if your family is fine with you eating more carbs (I doubt they can guess your intake though) - or you simply added back problematic items? Because that’s not good. And it’s somewhat individual what is bad. I avoid things on low-carb, keto and even on carnivore as I feel they aren’t ideal.
So if you do low-carb, do the best low-carb you can.
And you feel what works for you. The same low-carb diet feels different for me now than 9 or even 2 years ago… Things change.
80 g of carbs, 4 kcal per g of carb… 320 Kcal coming from carbs. So, all the other calories your body is burning are coming from something else. Why would that be bad?
I found it curious that you went into it to test drive it before recommending it to your relative with diabetes. And you don’t have diabetes. So, you think that the experience of one, and one who doesn’t even share the same metabolic condition, is some kind of proof that the diet is, or isn’t healthy. But what happens to you doesn’t prove anything, concerning the safety of the diet for others.
Hi Michael,
That’s true hence I started to think if there is a merit to being in low carb diet if I’m not in ketosis. The article clearly gives a thumbs up on that so thank you for sharing your thoughts and the article.
Food for thought. Thank you Ken. Your point is intriguing and I should admit I do have a meal a week that it’s unprocessed whole food that contains some carbs than my usual meal. That I suppose falls nicely with your suggestion.
Thank you for sharing your non-scale victories as well as weight loss victory. That was the exact reason why I wanted to introduce ketogenic diet to my close relative.
Thank you Shinita. Yes sometimes it is just the matter of being selfish, is what we should do. Other times compromising feels appropriate. In my case, after two years, I noticed, as I heard here and there and reading between the lines, I have had very positive impact on most of my close family members and relatives despite their objections. I learnt that, quietly many have stopped most of processed food, seed oils and carb heavy foods. Led by example I’d guess. That was the main reason I compromised a little but kept only to whole food where the total daily carb can be maintained on good carbs such veg that grown over-ground.
You may well be in ketosis even at 80 g/day. What makes a diet ketogenic is that your carb intake—whatever that level may be—is low enough to allow your liver to still make ketones. The key is how much carbohydrate you can eat without triggering the secretion of too much insulin. So if you are not insulin-resistant, you can safely eat a bit more carbohydrate and remain in ketosis.
People often use the terms “low-carbohydrate” and “ketogenic” to mean different things, reserving the latter for carb intakes that are very low, such as the recommended limit of 20 g/day that we tell people here on the Ketogenic Forums. I, however, see the two terms as basically interchangeable. Our diet is ketogenic at whatever level of carb intake still allows our liver to make ketones, and that threshold is going to be different for each of us.
Personally, I find that while I can eat more carbohydrate than I normally do and still remain in ketosis, if I eat too much I start getting my aches and pains back (while still in ketosis), which is a good incentive to keep my carb intake as low as I can, rather than to try to push the limit. I suspect that everyone will have a different experience in this regard.
Thank you Carol for getting right in to the point and being constructively critical. Really to good to see different angles here.
You make a fair and important point. I actually haven’t looked at my daily food intake from that angle. Come to think of it, I still have the habit of consuming a good amount of fat everyday.
But that is not what I am concerned about, but the metabolic switch, and whether or not this switch is happening when eating more than 20g carb daily. If it is not happening, what benefit I am actually getting from reducing my carb intake to < 80g? Carbs from whole food such as fruit or veg.
Regarding the safety, it was more of actually learning first hand and giving confidence to the one I was going to suggest to. Again you make such a good point and what you refer to, did not actually occur to me at the time but I get your point and is very valid point.
Thank you for your input Paul. I read your comments very keenly. You last sentence in the first paragraph is a positive.
About a different limit for each person, you are absolutely right. Last year, after I started eating low carb, rather than ketogenic, when I had more than 80 or 100 grams carb, a cheat-day I should say, I used to get aches and pains the day after for a few hours, which would’ve immediately been an alarm bell that it is caused by consuming high amount of carb. Interestingly, after a year, I am not getting those pains, even after a cheat day so it is confusing me on whether my body id burning glucose or ketones. If my body is burning glucose then is there actually a benefit on my method of eating and is there something I should be considered long-term?
Im confused?
Wasnt the Atkins diet a “low carb diet”?
And wasnt that a diet that touted the 20net rule?
So how is 80 net considered a low carb diet? Wouldnt it be moderate carb?
On another note OP… are you being bullied for being in a state of ketosis and they see that as unhealthy? Are they bullying you because of jealousy that you’ve taken control over your hralth and your eating and they havent?
This is the one thing i noticed since going Keto…
My friends who are on the heavier side always make a comment when they see me eating. They say “oh i really need to go on ---- diet again”. Or they say “oh but you cant have ----”. They think they are saying “poor me” and feeling bad almost in a mocking way when really… I dont feek bad that im eating keto. I feel better. I dont miss being addicted to crap…ect.
Yes, the Atkins diet is a low-carb diet. There is a book out, written by Westman, Phinney, and Volek, called something like The Atkins Diet for a New You, so you know it has to be low-carb, lol!
Dr. Phinney denied this when I asked him about it, but I swear there are—or used to be—videos of him calling 100-125 g of carbohydrate “low-carb.” Now that he’s part of Virta Health, he recommends that patients keep their total carbohydrate under 50 g/day, in the hope that their net carbs will stay under 20 g. In any case, everyone’s carb threshold is different, and it depends on a number of factors, including how insulin-resistant someone is. We strongly recommend that newcomers to this way of eating stick to the 20 g limit at least until they are fat-adapted. At that point, if they want to experiment with a higher limit, they can.
The story circulating on the forums when I joined in 2017 was that Richard and Carl really wanted to tell people to eat no carbohydrate at all, but thought that would turn people off the diet, so they set 20 g/day as an upper limit, because that was guaranteed to get pretty much everyone successfully into ketosis (except those who are really insulin-resistant). I have never asked either of them about this story, but whether it is true or not, the logic makes sense.
Exact numbers vary, but 250 grams of carbohydrate is the usual (SAD) recommendation, and anything under 100 or 150 is generally considered low carb.
Even Dr. Atkins said carbs aren’t necessary. He incorporated vegetables and other things into the diet simply for variety, because people wanted different flavors and textures.
Remember, the first Atkins book was published in 1972. Given that there was no Internet, etc., limited information and support were available to individuals. So the book kind of had to be one-size-fits-all. (Ignoring the “stages” of Atkins, which were not for me.)
Having studied, followed, and succeeded on Atkins in the past, I think of “keto” as Atkins, but with several decades more scientific knowledge, and more opportunities to inform oneself and tweak accordingly.
I only remember the 96 version i think… i havent looked at all the other ones. I just remember i was being told it was for low carb by the endocrinologist i saw way back yonder
I think a more useful distinction is at what point consumption of carbs inhibits and/or stops ketosis. As @PaulL points out above, the amount of carbs consumed (and I would add over what period of time) varies individually quite a bit, before ketosis starts/stops. The primary control factors are glucose and insulin concentrations in the blood. Thus, even though 100 grams of carbs is ‘low’ compared to a SAD diet commonly consuming 500 grams, that doesn’t make it low carb. It still inhibits ketosis. On the other hand, even folks who eat 500 grams of carbs every day can still activate ketosis if the time between their last meal and first meal of the next day are separated long enough and they ate most of those carbs earlier in the day.
Personally, I think keto is the best way to go. I think it the most healthy metabolic state to be in long term. I think it worthwhile to do whatever you need to do to modify your eating to get there and stay there consistently. That said, I understand that some folks won’t and/or can’t do it for various reasons. For them ‘lower carb’ is certainly better than higher carb. Maybe a realistic goal could be a daily IF of 12-14 hours between supper and breakfast. I’ve pointed out multiple times that such a schedule of eating was pretty common when I was a child, adolescent and young adult.
Ironically, Dr. Phinney got his start by trying to prove that Atkins was wrong . . . 
Don’t forget about glucagon, which is what tells the liver to start making ketones and glucose, because there’s not enough coming in from our food. It’s the low ratio of insulin to glucagon that leads to ketosis.
Excellent point. Thanks.