McDonalds Pattie experiment

#21

very true. what is life today…the food of today to base only our studies on now so? not like we can bring back 2 million year old ‘taters’ to feed a mouse while we experiment on it LOL

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #22

It was standard medical advice to cut carbohydrate to lose weight as far back as the early nineteenth century. Sugar, grains, and starches were known to be fattening much earlier than that, long before industrial food processing was invented.

It was only once Ancel Keys taught us all to fear fat above all else that carbohydrate became “health food.” There was a far more robust correlation between sugar intake and coronary heart disease in his data, but he chose to ignore it. Possibly because friends of his were being paid at the time by the sugar industry to downplay the risks of eating sugar and play up the risks of eating fat.

Of course the carbs used in rodent experiments are processed, because that’s all that is available for rodent chow. But that doesn’t say anything about the effect of too much carbohydrate from other sources on the rodents. But human beings are the only mammal that gets into ketosis as easily as we do; in other mammals it is a response to starvation. So rodent studies can tell us a lot of useful information, but they can’t tell us everything.

#23

yea I get that in the rodent on experiment probably is never metabolism compromised or a ‘health train wreck’ against what humans are in any experiment based on ‘their past food ingestion’ or what ‘vaccines’ and more they are hit with in their lifespan for this testing etc…a ton of variance here for sure…in any way which should be 100x worse for humans in that ‘hmm…are we the same testing category’ kinda…good info on that! I like chatting out this stuff, interesting as we spew out on it.

(Doug) #24

Very good and essential point, Paul. And how deeply that was ingrained in so many of us - my parents’ generation and mine, for sure. The “low-fat” deal and the marketing barrage in that direction continues, even now…

(Doug) #25

:+1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey93GV-oKQY

Not short, at 80 minutes, but he approaches things in a very honest, considered manner. I love the parts where he talks about his results, blood tests, etc., and interprets them.

(KM) #26

True. I would only counter that back in the day when carbs were understood to be fattening, most people weren’t fat even though they ate them. Cut the potatoes was reasonable advice given to those who found themselves unfortunately gaining more than they wished, but it didn’t appear to be necessary advice for the general population.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #27

That’s because they didn’t eat much of them, because they were fattening. It’s why fatness was associated with prosperity, because only people of means, who could afford fine white flour and white sugar (both very labour-intensive to produce at the time), were able to eat enough refined carbs to get fat, develop gout, and so forth. If you were living off venison poached from the lord’s forest, that helped keep you thin.

#28

Me neither but as I never did, it’s especially easy for me :smiley: (I ate similar stuff very occasionally but not from actual fast food restaurants. If there was a way, I rather went to a supermarket to buy something when I couldn’t go home or to a normal restaurant to have a proper meal.)
I still don’t know why McDonald’s is so popular… It doesn’t seem good to me at all. And some families treat it like a well, TREAT. What. Do they cook so bad at home? Homemade food is about the best, maybe really good restaurants are better for many, I get it, they are different to me, not better, not worse.
Sometimes I read the menu at the entrance of the wildlife park here. Nice but I can buy deer and make it myself and that suits my taste and actual rules better…

But of course it’s not surprising that patties gives a better results… Even with some personal differences, obviously.

Carbs in big amounts (possibly only non-animal ones, especially simple sugars, total is irrelevant, apparently) are bad for me. Very low-quality highly-processed sugary stuff is bad even for my high-carber SO, it’s good we never buy even simple sugar since ~12 years… But we learned not to taste just about anything elsewhere either…
I believe carbs have different types in general too, some feels or do worse than others, it’s individual starches are bad for someone or not… And weird things done to our food is often bad.

I stick to my simple meat slabs, it’s not like I could afford McDonald’s anyway :smiley: But I never ate there, I have principles. Sometimes I hate something without trying, this is one example. Another is tripe :smiley: Ew.

I understand. I do what I can, I mostly eat one ingredient items and if I can, farm meat, I check out labels and so on… But if it’s a huge hassle and I don’t actually eat crap so it’s probably a tiny thing my body can handle so easily, I don’t bother. I was a perfectionist as a kid (not food wise, sadly) and it’s not a really happy healthy attitude to have. Aim for the best if it’s not too bothersome but stop when it’s too much and our convenience or mental health seriously suffers. I do put tiny effort into various things, sometimes more when it is worth it but there are limits. They should be.

And I am pretty sure you are right… It’s useful to see what really matters and what not.
Using up 2 huge plastic bottles for water, well that would be painful to me. I made sure the tap water is drinkable when I moved here but I always had other methods. (I would hate shopping often or a ton at a time anyway. Our big shopping in every 3-4 weeks is big and tiring enough and our car is small.)
My biggest pain is when I see some lovely meat on a great sale in a plastic box :frowning: Well no, it’s not hedonistic to be in pain then, I only buy that when it’s really too good to miss out… It’s rare enough. Our garbage is extremely little compared to the average person. We pay for 120l every week and we throw out about 30L every month…? It depends. Good as taking out the garbage is more than a 2km walk :smiley: I like walking but not that much with garbage. Half of it is eggshells :smiley: (The big plastic boxes go elsewhere though. But our recyclable stuff isn’t so very much either, probably. It’s important as who knows how tiny percentage got recycled… Not me.)

Our chemicals usage is super tiny. IDK how others do, one small dishwasher bottle lasts for years and I cook a lot and quite fatty… We get clean with pure water (we do use shampoo and I even grab a shower gel as we got some as gifts and someone need to use them up but it will take quite a few years for a few bottles)…

It still says nothing of the healthiness of carbs - not like I would believe old (or new) medical advice about such things…
But I think most of us on this forum are sure high-carb is bad for very many people.
And modern times made it much worse.

Fortunately not all :wink:
By the way, does anyone know some good and possibly visual info about average macro percentages in the countries of the world? Even if it’s incomplete. I know about my own country, that was interesting but I couldn’t find very fresh data, oh well, 2013 is good enough for me now.
If someone here is interested and missed me talking about it, I don’t do it so often, we Hungarians eat quite much fat on average (about as much as I do or my high-carber SO does? I remember 130g a day). And much carbs too (thankfully not me anymore). And low-adequate protein if i remember correctly (but it’s low adequate according to me and I consider it right higher than many). We eat almost no beef and it goes lower every year. It’s pork and chicken here, mostly. Organ meats are popular and cheap and very available (at least heart and liver. the non-ruminant one. I only can buy ruminant meat if I go to a bigger town or city).

Mouse testing has so many differences compared to humans eating food by their own will that I never even think they are particularly informative for us like individual people searching for our own ideal woe… They surely give some informative data for researchers…

They worked and not with breaks to the donut+cake room (I never saw such a thing but heard about others on forums)… My anchestors ate pasties and fruits and potatoes and bread and meat and fatty dairy and eggs alike, they surely had no idea about any of them being “fattening” as even my Grandma, Mom or I never heard (well until lately, I heard that lately but never in my youth. my younger youth) that but they were hard-working peasants and they didn’t do snacks out of boredom…
Modern food, modern circumstances, modern habits. I blame those.

I have a novel where the family bought white bread because they got a guest… It was so odd to me as I was born in 1976 and only white bread was available… Poor me. I dislike white bread. Brown bread with sesame is way more tastier. Not much better to me though. But tastier. Since I bake our own bread, it’s not white. Even though white flour is way more inexpensive… Things changed a lot.
By the way, white flour got the price cap here as that is what normal people buy. So it’s even more inexpensive compared to wholemeal flour.

It makes sense.
And I think even fatty pork may help us stay slim but whenever I go for a recipe (it’s easy but last time I wanted to check out what to do with pork with skin on it), the author just NEED TO mention it’s super fattening. Nope. It’s not. The other recipe with the cake, half fat, half carbs, that is the fattening one if something… (I am always amazed how super fatty cakes here are. My keto cakes aren’t even remotely as fatty…)
BUT considering people obviously eat lots of carbs, yep, maybe it’s fattening there. I am still not sure it raises the energy intake but it depends even in my case…

(KM) #29

As did subsisting on a diet of Irish potatoes because the lord’s venison was the lord’s.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #30

Not if you didn’t get caught! :rofl:

P.S.—What did Europeans do for starch before Columbus brought potatoes back from the New World? (Also, what was Italian cooking like before he brought tomatoes over, too?)

(Alec) #31

McDonalds patties on their own is a staple of the diet on the road. Fine carnivore fare. Recommended and dirt cheap. A$10 for 3 Angus patties, which is nearly a pound of meat.

#32

Yea I have to choose McDs over Burger King when out and about. I like Wendy’s Baconater kinda but then I hate the taste of Hardees meat too.
Something with their taste makes me not a fan :slight_smile: We carnivores know our fast food joints that suit us best for sure LOL Fortunately on the road food fare can be limited for me so that helps not worrying over eating out so much, I gotta say, homecooked meat sure beats fast food tho for me.

#33

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey93GV-oKQY&t=3365s

#34

Hopefully you know the trick of doing double meat…AFTER they’ve started making it?

Play with that one, order double meat from the get-go, next time do it after other crap is on there! It’ll be like having triple, cheapskates!

#35

We had millet and many other grains. Legumes as well.

I honestly can’t imagine a cuisine of a country without tomatoes… Not just Italian cuisine. But yep, it was something vastly different.
Just like Hungarian cuisine was different without potato and paprika, so many of our traditional dishes depend on them, often both at the same time. I have read recipes from that time, we still ate meat and grains and various spices… It was fine but something quite different indeed.

#36

That’s unaffordably expensive to me (I told it to my SO, he thinks so too). Okay, not once a year when travelling and in great need but I still rather would fast than buying food for THAT much money… (Apart from the fact I wouldn’t go near McDonald’s.)
But I wouldn’t fast (I would merely rather fast), I would just bring my own food. I did it when I went to longer motorbike tours. And there are supermarkets as well.

Even when we had a way higher income, we just didn’t want to waste so much money on food. Without some very great restaurant experience, at least, there is not just the food we get.

(Alec) #37

Interesting… how much do you pay in the supermarket where you are for ground beef? Over here in Aus, we pay about A$6-7/lb, which is approx US$4.5-5/lb. A 30% premium for them buying it, transporting it, storing it, cooking it, and then selling it to me where I need it seems very reasonable to me.

#38

I wasn’t sure it’s AUD (sorry, tired and anyway, who is from there, that’s not always clear to me, I eventually learn it for a few persons and that’s it), yeah that’s a tad better but it’s still too much for me.
I can’t afford ground beef but it’s a tad cheaper in supermarkets still I think. I never would buy ground meat.
But not even a pure one? No idea what is in those patties, maybe I would research if I wasn’t against McDonald’s and could spend way more than my daily food money on a little meat only… A pound of meat is cute but it’s only a pound of meat. Even on my way meatier days I usually need a bunch of other stuff. And as I wrote, a nice restaurant may worth the extra cost but just some patties? Nope.

But yep, surely it’s great for many people. Maybe I shouldn’t comment on prices as a poor Hungarian. Though I know about prices elsewhere and they often aren’t so very different (except UK and their amazing prices I am envious of sometimes. I am NOT envious of NZ prices. Australia is pricy too but it depends on the items).

(Jane) #39

I hadn’t heard of that trick. Thanks!

(Kirk Wolak) #40

Absolutely Fangs. I often make the FL->TN or FL->MI drive and back.
Driving stresses me out, and makes me hungry.

I will often pack pre-cooked bacon. And if I stop, I will often go for the large all beef hot dogs.
Although one never truly knows what they are getting. And I do end up getting 4-6 of them. Sans the bun, of course. I got grossed out eating quarter pounder patties… Hard to do now.

But travel is hard. I’ve actually avoided a few trips recently, just to avoid the stress.
I know my limits.

One upside of NOT drink diet soda… especially when driving… Is I don’t get that MASSIVE URGE to PEE, gotta stop NOW… I wired it in my brain to be “You drank poison, and we want it OUT!” LOL