Mark Sisson gets harshly criticized by Diet Doctor Andreas Eenfeldt

#21

Now that is something else. I have utmost respect for him and what he does. I smarted a bit when he brought in the paid area but he has really put a lot of effort into growing the resources and I think it is value for money - although I don;t subscribe at the moment. I will at some point but I know I don;t have the time right now to take full advantage of it. I have trialled it in the very early stages - so early I think I watched everything there was on offer!

I don’t see his need to attack Mark and this product though. It is a bit beneath him I feel. I am with him 100% when he attacks the fraudulent products claiming to be low carb when they are not but this feels snidey. I expect more from someone I have a lot of respect for.

Absolutely. In fact, when you are paying for info alone and that info comes free from adverts, it could be argued it is somehow more pure. You can certainly say that there is no influence at all from advertisers because it is the public who pay for the info generated.

That said, I am not against advertising either, when it is done selectively. I actually think it is a benefit to the readers to have vetted products advertised to them as long as they don’t get annoying and constantly flash in your face like some sites seem to. Both can be done ethically. Selling products to fund your site and you can also - nothing wrong with that either.

Remember that he is human and we all have our off days when we might say things we don’t necessarily mean. There is a lot of free info still available on his website and the paid area has grown into a very valuable resource which you CAN access for free for a month I believe. You do not have to pay to view the website, just areas of it.

I am less familiar with Mark Sissons but I have read some of his articles and they are really good. I agree that he sounds like he is a straight up guy. I suspect Andreas just had a wanky moment. It happens to us all!

(bulkbiker) #22

Sorry disagree here… there is a huge amount of info available on diet doctor for free… If you want to delve deeper then you can subscribe but there is nothing to force you into paying for anything and I admire his desire to remain commercial free. I usually send first time LCHF’s who want to know more there because it is such a great free resource.

(Karen Parrott) #23

Both Mark and Robb somewhat alluded to the try , it and modify it.

Don’t hassle those who add beans back in (Mark) and don’t be so extreme- but do find your optimum with LC (Robb) at the State of the State at PaleoFx 2015. There was a huge push from Mark to not interact with internet trolls for himself and he urged us to also focus on well, Primal living. Huge mention, very directly from Robb that the no grains (Paleo) movement had a huge PR problem. HUGE. That the movement could be stalled for quite a while until we each did our part in not taking each other down.

LCHF was very debated that year, Keto was new to that space. Now cross-over is common and very accepted between the groups (cross-fitters, Paleo, Primal, regular folks who got well, maybe less so in AIP for good reasons)

Great take aways for the LCHF/Keto groups, too. I fear that the fractions could delay folks like me, who need to use LCHF/Keto for Food Addiction right here right now from even learning about it. Hoping Keto Fest 2017 will help be a bridge to those who need remission from FA. Eating yourself to death is unpleasant. Keto is an awesome tool, but how can I recommend someone to a group that is extremist one way or another?

The person I’m most like in the Paleo/Primal/LCHF/Keto world is Robb Wolf. Similar food sensitivities, I do better on low carb/ mild Keto but not always and not too low. Similar auto-immune and food sensitivities.

#24

I personally err on the side of tolerance so criticizing other lifestyles is not my thing. I was paleo for 2 yrs before transitioning to keto and I would just like to clarify a couple of points. 1. Paleo is not necessarily low carb. 2. The premise of paleo is a fundamental desire to eat as close to whole and natural foods as possible and to minimize consumption of things that are relatively new to the human diet. So, obviously paleo folks do not expect to eat exactly like caveman. However, early man did not have ready access to grains nor dairy nor industrialized food like substances. Just like keto, paleo has always has it’s desserts, including chocolate, honey, coconut sugar, maple syrup, stevia, and even dried fruit. I see no problem with Sissons’ products. People know how to read labels and decide accordingly.

(eat more) #25

i’m still trying to wrap my head around this…in this case Mark Sisson and the Primal brand/lifestyle are the advertisers…on the Primal site…can’t get more “pure” than that…not like he’s promoting Twinkies
Primal has always been a for profit “movement” that gained attention from a commercially published book back when there were actual brick and mortar bookstores…

with subscription based membership i don’t think that the public pays for the creation of the actual information…they pay for the platform that allows them to view the information, that the site’s owner/team decides on…there is no “purity” in that…i read some of the comments and the “public” wasn’t in support of the post…

if there was moral/ethical “responsibility” involved wouldn’t everyone just share information for free?

i personally would rather see ads that i could ignore or embrace than pay a membership fee and…let others do their own thing…unless they’re kicking puppies and then it’s game on lol

#26

I have nothing against him making and selling products. he seems to be very clear about what they contain. No issue with that. Whether it’s Paleo or not… well I think that is all a bit wanky anyway so…

The fees that come from paying for access to the Diet Doc paid area go directly to funding the info they fill it with, inc obviously all the wages to maintain site etc. You can access it for a month with no charge or obligation so you can actually watch a lot for nothing anyway. You can at least try before you buy a month at a time anyways.

Both work for me. We all have to make a living.

I agree re selective advertising as well. What I hate is when you go to a nutrition type site and they have that free flow of any old ad coming up via google with crappy diets and pills and the like. I am happy to see adverts for things I might like to buy!

(Keto in Katy) #27

My thoughts exactly.

Who is he to be calling out someone else for what they do with their website and their community?

For several months I have been a paid subscriber of the Diet Doctor website because I like the resources and I want to support their efforts to help people. But I am considering canceling my subscription now.

(Larry Lustig) #28

Seems like the guy making the chocolate bars has every right to make and sell them and the guy who is disdainful of them has every right to hold and state his opinion. Not sure where the problem is.

After all, we all recognize the right of candy makers to sell candy and our right to believe and state that people shouldn’t eat it, right?

#29

I know what you mean but I think the tone of the attack is unwarranted really. I understood it with Atkins products. This just feels a bit like he was in a mood and decided to have a go!

(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #30

I’m actually not sure I could get wholeheartedly behind that proposition.
At least, I could get behind a proposal to strictly regulate the sale and marketing (and pricing, and taxation) of candy in a similar way to the way tobacco is highly regulated (at least in Europe).

(Sandra Watson) #31

I get the slippery slope thought… personally I think primal should be non packaged, but that is just how picky I am. Your mileage may vary :wink: PS, LOVE both the diet dr and Mark S. :wink:

#32

i’m still trying to wrap my head around this…in this case Mark Sisson and the Primal brand/lifestyle are the advertisers…on the Primal site…can’t get more “pure” than that…not like he’s promoting Twinkies
Primal has always been a for profit “movement” that gained attention from a commercially published book back when there were actual brick and mortar bookstores…

Mark Sisson has been in the supplement business for a long time. Beachbody used him to create a protein powder supplement for their workout programs many years ago (there’s a video in some of the P90X type workouts; can’t remember which).

(eat more) #33

poking around on amazon i see that he has frequent releases…the “new” primal blueprint came out this past november…i wonder if it’s “more” keto?
the primal kitchen release coming in june

in case anyone is interested :blush:

i pulled out my OG primal blueprint to see what my brain missed the first time…prob a lot due to impatience and having the wrong focus lol

#34

My understanding is that Sisson’s core values are real foods. So when I look at all of Eenfeldt’s complaint articles I see he has a point. He claims it isn’t just one candy bar. It’s a lot of lollipops, candies and sodas. It’s a trend.

Except, then I went to the Primal Kitchen website and I couldn’t find any soda or lollipops.

I’ve come to not trust the Diet Doctor in recent years. Far too many articles have his personal biases in the way. Case in point was an article he wrote about advising women to be wary of keto when breast-feeding (which was relevant for my family). Turned out he needed to edit his advice as he’d taken it too far.

Taking things too far is a trend with Eenfeldt.

That said, I can’t stand Sisson’s production-line blog process, backed by a team of 20 researchers. Bleh. I like real people blogs. Not production lines. I don’t feel I’m hearing a real person. It seems to me it’s a juggernaut sales campaign.

Eenfeldt has always had the courage to write his mind, even when it might be unpopular. I could never imagine Sisson doing that.

Then again, perhaps Eenfeldt’s standards would lift if he also used 20 researchers to verify he wasn’t taking things too far.

(Steve Stephenson) #35

Dr Andreas Eenfeldt is possibly more right than he knows to be concerned with examples of “leaders of the herd” going astray and taking their followers with them.

12 years ago the Atkins diet was making real progress, but then, as Dr Jay Wortman chronicles in Undoing Atkins: A Cautionary Tale, the herd was led astray by nutritional pundits coerced by the dark side.

In 1992, Dr. Wortman developed type 2 diabetes and quickly discovered that it could be controlled by restricting dietary carbohydrates. He went on to do clinical research on low-carbohydrate diets and became a little bit famous for a study he did in the Namgis First Nation of Alert Bay which was the subject of the CBC documentary film, My Big Fat Diet, FAQs. His research interest in the dietary management of obesity, pre-diabetes and diabetes led him back into clinical practice."]

Learn how the pundits are coerced to the dark side in Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming [and LCHF diets].

Merchants of Doubt tells the story of how a loose-knit group of high-level scientists and scientific advisers, with deep connections in politics and industry, ran effective campaigns to mislead the public and deny well-established scientific knowledge over four decades. Remarkably, the same individuals surface repeatedly-some of the same figures who have claimed that the science of global warming is “not settled” denied the truth of studies linking smoking to lung cancer, coal smoke to acid rain, and CFCs to the ozone hole. “Doubt is our product,” wrote one tobacco executive. These “experts” supplied it.

Possible climate changed futures:

The Collapse of Western Civilization: A View from the Future.

The year is 2393, and a senior scholar of the Second People’s Republic of China presents a gripping and deeply disturbing account of how the children of the Enlightenment, the political and economic elites of the so-called advanced industrial societies, entered into a Penumbral period in the early decades of the twenty-first century, a time when sound science and rational discourse about global change were prohibited and clear warnings of climate catastrophe were ignored. What ensues when soaring temperatures, rising sea levels, drought, and mass migrations disrupt the global governmental and economic regimes? The Great Collapse of 2093.

Above Evil: A Science Prediction Novel, by our own Stephen Phinney, who, as we know, “is a New York Times best-selling author, physician, and self-affirmed nutritional iconoclast. In his novel set twenty years in the future,” Steve posits the collapse of civilization due to a climate change induced global catastrophe and “crafts a vision of where technology might take us, and how it could offer our grandchildren a positive future.”

Page 215, “What they came up with is actually simpler and safer than taking some drug. They want us to try taking all of the starch and sugar out of our diet, so that most of our energy will come from fat and some from protein. Its composition would be something like a traditional Inuit diet. What led them to this was that 25 years ago, some diet doctors showed that a low carbohydrate diet reduced the body’s level of inflammation and its production of free radicals (Cassandra Forsythe, et al. Comparison of low fat and low carbohydrate diets on circulating fatty acid composition and markers of inflammation. Lipids. 2008: 43: 65-77) …", which affords the dieter some radiation protection.

So people in high radiation environments (e.g., X-ray technicians and patients) should be following LCHF diets.

#36

Awesome post. Appreciated.

(David) #37

Thanks for linking this. For what it’s worth here’s my 2c.

I can’t object to these products existing. We live in a world where products meet needs.

I can’t object To Mark Sisson selling them through his website. He has to make a living like everyone else.

Most wild/paleo books and sites tell you that you can have paleo “cheesecake” , or “wild” double chocolate chips everythings. Even the recipe section on this site is awash with pudding/bread recipes. It’s what people want.

But, the reality is that we are all on a slipperly slope where keeping your footing is difficult and you can fall far and fast. I don’t keep 90% dark chocolate in my cupboard because I know I will eat it, first as a treat, but later as a habit. Then I will start to slip and before I know it I am eating candy and chips and all the things.

The Daily Apple website is like a cupboard. If I go there I will see these ads. I don’t want to want the sweet things sold there. They will cause me, sooner or later, to lose my footing.

So I will stay away.

#38

I didn’t know that Dr Phinney authored a sci fi novel! Wow.

Geez, the new and surprising things I learn each day!!!

(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #39

It’s what some people want.

(imho, of course).

(David) #40

Fair enough. I just meant there is a demand for it.