Mark Sisson gets harshly criticized by Diet Doctor Andreas Eenfeldt

#1

Wow…what’s happening with Eenfeldt? There was more lashing out this week. This time with Mark Sisson and his Daily Apple primal/paleo business.

Somehow, the diet doctor became quite angry with Sisson’s latest chocolate bar product, made with these ingredients:

Almonds, Pumpkin Seeds, Grass-Fed Hydrolyzed Collagen, Pre-PFrom Cassava Root), Coconut Flakes, Honey, Natural Flavors, Water, Coconut Oil, Unsweetened Chocolate, Organic Fair Trade Cocoa Powder, Cocoa Nibs, Himalayan Pink Salt, Monk Fruit Extract, Tocopherols, Hazelnuts, Macadamia Nuts, Cashews

According to the diet doctor, selling chocolate bars, under the primal or paleo brand is dangerous. And selling any sort of candy is not the right thing to do.

Honestly…I’m confused. If eating this sort of stuff is ok with some folks, why rebel against it? Is diet doctor against the concept of candy, or the use of alternative sweeteners? Not sure.

I’m not a fan of Sisson’s products, and don’t buy any of them. I’m not a fan of anything that’s got a dessert, cookie, cake, candy, etc, form…even if it’s been “keto-fied”. Homemade or purchased. But, not sure why Mark’s business is being scolded like this. Some people want these types of products, and Mark has a business selling it to them.

(John) #2

The whole paleo religion is stupid to me anyway, arguing about what is and isn’t paleo. If you are eating it today it likely isn’t the same thing they ate. All of the fruits and most of the veggies we have today are not the same or even close.

They are making progress on cloning Wooly Mammoth so there is that to look forward to.

Given the chance to spend the evening talking to a vegan or paleo, I would choose the vegan, and that says something.

Edit: Made the mistake of reading the comments… This has been mentioned with keto more than a couple of times, people believe the way they are doing it is the only way, and if you don’t agree you aren’t keto.

To me, Keto is a way of eating that keeps you in ketosis, end of story. No requirements for grass-fed, sugar alcohols, booze, Cheetos it doesn’t matter. If you can tolerate 50g of carbs a day and you choose to eat some M&Ms then good for you, you are on a keto diet.

(eat more) #3

reads more like he’s against being profitable and thinks MDA should be chastised for creating another revenue stream
MDA/primal blueprint has always been a business

i think the “PS” was pretty telling…

(eat more) #4

i’d pick paleo…at least we could talk about meat, butter ghee, and bacon :joy:

(John) #5

Bring up dairy to a paleo and wish for a good vegan conversation!

I was watching a video with some paleo guy explaining that he had 1 bite of bread and it took 6 months for the effects of the gluten to wear off. I think you have just been fortunate not to talk to the whackadoodles.

(I am a Dog (Dog's eat until they burst!)) #6

My guess is a cross between commercialization, real primal eating, and temptation. I believe in capitalism and generally Mark offering these products would not bother me however, did our ancestors make sweet snacks from scraps of the mostly carb foods that were laying on the ground and bind them together with fats to have a snack while foraging or hunting?

A better complaint is the creation of a snack bar to promote snacking with a group of people who are trying to get away from their old way of eating and eat whole, real food. Many other experts complain about the same thing with the Atkins bars.

Here is the nutrition label:

image.png452×886 24.4 KB

Depending on whether you use total carbohydrates or net the percent of calories looks like this (Carbs/Protein/Fat): Total carbs: 22.3/23.9/53.8 Net carbs: 14.1/26.4/59.5.

For most people on LCHF having 22.3% of energy from carbs is a bit much.

(eat more) #7

oh no…i totally hear you…i ditched paleo/primal forums almost as soon as they were created lol
“Grok” and “Grokette” freaking out over anything “our paleolithic man wouldn’t eat” was more than i could handle lol

i’d actually pick a conversation with any non-judgemental eater…i was just trying to be funny
:fail:

lol

#8

What is the difference between Carlshead pizza and Mark Sisson’s chocolate bar concoction?

I don’t mean macro-wise…I can certainly do the math and analytical comparison.

What I mean is, what’s the difference between “LCHF-ing” a pizza recipe versus a chocolate bar recipe?

What is the difference between “LCHF-ing” a pecan tart recipe versus a chocolate bar recipe?

I’m having a difficulty understanding the logic between placing one “LCHF-ed” recipe in the penalty box, while another rides free of any charges. I don’t get it. Can someone help me understand the difference?

(Keto in Katy) #9

Taking any philosophically purist position on diet is dumb, imo. Eat what makes you feel great and enhances your health.

(Karen Parrott) #10

Ugh!!! Less squabbling amongst people going in the same direction but maybe on different paths would be welcome. I can see both sides but I wouldn’t start up a big Internet war on my blog. My blog is non-commercial and I like keeping it that way so I can have my own opinions

If I tootled over to Andreas’ recipe section, I’ll bet I would find all kinds of Frankenfood made out of Keto. And I bet there’s all kinds of better foods I could take traveling then Mark Sisson’s over priced products. I refuse to pay $10-$12 for his special mayo just because it’s convenient. But I know there’s plenty of folks who do benefit from old favorite foods and a cleaner mayo.

It’s OK

I would like to think that at some of these big meetings like Paleo FX 2017, low-carb USA 2017, keto fest 2017, that The world wide leaders could come together and agree to disagree but to keep it to a short lively friendly discussion and not public.

I’m extremely against things like Keto cookies but I don’t rant and rave about people who love keto cookies and use them responsibly. If you catch me at the back of the meeting rooms at Low Carb USA 2017 2017 , I can tell you why they can be so damaging to me. I can also explain to you why I might take a keto cookie sample and give it to my daughter. She might really enjoy that stuff.

As a food addict in recovery I can’t eat any of it and still be in remission. There’s lots of people who continue food addiction and are being low carb Paleo, primal, even Keto. It happens.

There’s no one way but it sure does give a lot of ammunition to those who are outside looking in. It also makes it’s a lot harder to point people to the grain free lifestyle like Paleo, primal, low-carb, keto lifestyle and say this is great when the leaders are battling each other and continuing to battle the SAD diet

Sigh. Let’s fighting each other and more promotion of the great things about Keto.

(Jacquie) #11

Where do you draw the line? One of my favourite expressions as it applies to so much in life. I’d like to think of myself as more of a live and let live kind of person but it’s hard sometimes. :wink:

(Jo Lo) #12

Besides all the cave man silliness, paleo is biologically based. This is how we got large brains and all our other amazing machinery, over millions of years of evolution.

Can any other diet say as much?

Ignore our biological basis at your peril.

#13

To be fair, if they had thought of doing it and had someone (probably the women) to go round collecting said scraps and mashing them into bars - yeah probably. I find this concept all a bit wankyto be fair unless you are going to go live in the wild with zero mod cons. I would;t if people didn’t get all judgey about it but they do. Wanky!

#14

For me, a lot depends on how the product is promoted and what it purports to be. If it does what it says on the tin I don;t really care. If it is downright misleading and actually contains a load of crap then… I have seen a worse ingredient list. I haven’t seen the promo for it but it looks like a typical paleo slightly cray ingredient list to me :wink:

(Louise ) #15

After hearing / seeing Andreas at the LowCarbBreck conference, I would say his stance is philosophically based. He was promoting how his DietDoctor.com was subscriber based and build up from the ground swell movement. I would take his stance based on his strong ethical corporate social responsibility principles.

(eat more) #16

so it’s ethical to take money for information but not shipped products?

(Zack F) #17

Firstly, I don’t know where Andreas is going but in health and nutrition Sisson has been on the side of the angels smashing the LFHC FDA baloney and all the rest IMHO. I have his first book and he is not dogmatic. He has an 80/20 rule and generally advises experimenting for carb tolerance.

Secondly, I definitely agree with Ron on the capitalism thing and if the product is not forced I’m cool with it. There are those, I’m not saying Eenfeldt is one BTW, that oppose people making money on just about anything health related as if Sisson is obligated to give all of his knowledge and experience for free. Dean Ornish has a right to make money and if people lose weight and maintain their weight eating his vegan diet then more power to them. For that matter, if they want to be utterly miserable keeping Ornish’s diet, more power to them. What I oppose is force behind it via government subsidies/regulation and “guidlines” that make us all miserable.

Finally, I’ve noticed a trend the last few years that many of the popular evolutionary/paleo/ancestral folks, like Sisson and Wolf (who’s always been a bit more sharped tongued than Sisson but always entertaining. I like his podcast), have taken a step back in the strident ways they communicate their ideas though they remain passionate about what they do. Not only that, they have they changed their views in certain areas and have tried to distance themselves from the unstable internet folks that promote things in a bullying one-size-fits-all manner.

I’d actually like to try that candy bar. :slight_smile:

(Loraine Hansen) #18

I don’t have a lot of time to answer this since I don’t get on here often anymore. And I’m not going to listen or read anything against Mark Sisson or the Primal Blueprint. But I AM going to say that ANYTIME someone decides to bash or criticize anyone else, my respect for the basher goes down the toilet. Mark Sisson and the Primal Blueprint is an AMAZING program and he is an AMAZINGLY supportive, real, genuine person who wants to help people. The 2 Keto Dudes remind me of Mark. Unassuming, without guile, or a desire to make money off people. Simply want to help others achieve the best health they possibly can. If he makes money by helping other people achieve optimum health, what’s the issue? He doesn’t PUSH his products, just offers them. I am very disappointed with the Diet doctor. And who is he to criticize anyway? You have to pay him just to be allowed to all areas of his website! So it sounds like he is criticizing Mark Sisson for the VERY thing he is guilty of. At least Mark Sisson’s website is free AND he offers a LOT of information for free. I won’t support the diet doctor after this. And for those of you who are curious, you should look up www.marksdailyapple.com He and the Primal Blueprint are amazing, and it’s the best possible program to follow for optimal health. For anyone.

(Jacquie) #19

Totally agree wit this.

(bulkbiker) #20

My take would be that the “Paleo” thing comes from a standpoint of not eating things that weren’t there in ancient times… You may agree or disagree that this is correct but from my understanding of Paleo that’s what the adherents say (I am not Paleo nor have ever followed it) When you look at it that way a site that has claimed to support that way of eating then starts to sell very “modern” food is betraying its roots and displaying a certain amount of hypocracy. The keto diet

  1. has no rulebook (as Brenda constantly reminds us) and has a simple method … 2)carbs below 20g per day. Thus there is nothing “wrong” with making a pizza that is low carb.
    Obviously I don’t know either of these guys but from reading the dietdoctor piece that is my interpretation of what Dr Eenfeldt was saying.
    That effectively by selling these products and espeically the “Primal Calm” tablets that Mark Sissons has departed from his “Paleo” ways thus betraying his strong following.
    But that’s just my take on it…