Mark Sisson gets harshly criticized by Diet Doctor Andreas Eenfeldt

(Louise ) #15

After hearing / seeing Andreas at the LowCarbBreck conference, I would say his stance is philosophically based. He was promoting how his DietDoctor.com was subscriber based and build up from the ground swell movement. I would take his stance based on his strong ethical corporate social responsibility principles.

(eat more) #16

so it’s ethical to take money for information but not shipped products?

(Zack F) #17

Firstly, I don’t know where Andreas is going but in health and nutrition Sisson has been on the side of the angels smashing the LFHC FDA baloney and all the rest IMHO. I have his first book and he is not dogmatic. He has an 80/20 rule and generally advises experimenting for carb tolerance.

Secondly, I definitely agree with Ron on the capitalism thing and if the product is not forced I’m cool with it. There are those, I’m not saying Eenfeldt is one BTW, that oppose people making money on just about anything health related as if Sisson is obligated to give all of his knowledge and experience for free. Dean Ornish has a right to make money and if people lose weight and maintain their weight eating his vegan diet then more power to them. For that matter, if they want to be utterly miserable keeping Ornish’s diet, more power to them. What I oppose is force behind it via government subsidies/regulation and “guidlines” that make us all miserable.

Finally, I’ve noticed a trend the last few years that many of the popular evolutionary/paleo/ancestral folks, like Sisson and Wolf (who’s always been a bit more sharped tongued than Sisson but always entertaining. I like his podcast), have taken a step back in the strident ways they communicate their ideas though they remain passionate about what they do. Not only that, they have they changed their views in certain areas and have tried to distance themselves from the unstable internet folks that promote things in a bullying one-size-fits-all manner.

I’d actually like to try that candy bar. :slight_smile:

(Loraine Hansen) #18

I don’t have a lot of time to answer this since I don’t get on here often anymore. And I’m not going to listen or read anything against Mark Sisson or the Primal Blueprint. But I AM going to say that ANYTIME someone decides to bash or criticize anyone else, my respect for the basher goes down the toilet. Mark Sisson and the Primal Blueprint is an AMAZING program and he is an AMAZINGLY supportive, real, genuine person who wants to help people. The 2 Keto Dudes remind me of Mark. Unassuming, without guile, or a desire to make money off people. Simply want to help others achieve the best health they possibly can. If he makes money by helping other people achieve optimum health, what’s the issue? He doesn’t PUSH his products, just offers them. I am very disappointed with the Diet doctor. And who is he to criticize anyway? You have to pay him just to be allowed to all areas of his website! So it sounds like he is criticizing Mark Sisson for the VERY thing he is guilty of. At least Mark Sisson’s website is free AND he offers a LOT of information for free. I won’t support the diet doctor after this. And for those of you who are curious, you should look up www.marksdailyapple.com He and the Primal Blueprint are amazing, and it’s the best possible program to follow for optimal health. For anyone.

(Jacquie) #19

Totally agree wit this.

(bulkbiker) #20

My take would be that the “Paleo” thing comes from a standpoint of not eating things that weren’t there in ancient times… You may agree or disagree that this is correct but from my understanding of Paleo that’s what the adherents say (I am not Paleo nor have ever followed it) When you look at it that way a site that has claimed to support that way of eating then starts to sell very “modern” food is betraying its roots and displaying a certain amount of hypocracy. The keto diet

  1. has no rulebook (as Brenda constantly reminds us) and has a simple method … 2)carbs below 20g per day. Thus there is nothing “wrong” with making a pizza that is low carb.
    Obviously I don’t know either of these guys but from reading the dietdoctor piece that is my interpretation of what Dr Eenfeldt was saying.
    That effectively by selling these products and espeically the “Primal Calm” tablets that Mark Sissons has departed from his “Paleo” ways thus betraying his strong following.
    But that’s just my take on it…
#21

Now that is something else. I have utmost respect for him and what he does. I smarted a bit when he brought in the paid area but he has really put a lot of effort into growing the resources and I think it is value for money - although I don;t subscribe at the moment. I will at some point but I know I don;t have the time right now to take full advantage of it. I have trialled it in the very early stages - so early I think I watched everything there was on offer!

I don’t see his need to attack Mark and this product though. It is a bit beneath him I feel. I am with him 100% when he attacks the fraudulent products claiming to be low carb when they are not but this feels snidey. I expect more from someone I have a lot of respect for.

Absolutely. In fact, when you are paying for info alone and that info comes free from adverts, it could be argued it is somehow more pure. You can certainly say that there is no influence at all from advertisers because it is the public who pay for the info generated.

That said, I am not against advertising either, when it is done selectively. I actually think it is a benefit to the readers to have vetted products advertised to them as long as they don’t get annoying and constantly flash in your face like some sites seem to. Both can be done ethically. Selling products to fund your site and you can also - nothing wrong with that either.

Remember that he is human and we all have our off days when we might say things we don’t necessarily mean. There is a lot of free info still available on his website and the paid area has grown into a very valuable resource which you CAN access for free for a month I believe. You do not have to pay to view the website, just areas of it.

I am less familiar with Mark Sissons but I have read some of his articles and they are really good. I agree that he sounds like he is a straight up guy. I suspect Andreas just had a wanky moment. It happens to us all!

(bulkbiker) #22

Sorry disagree here… there is a huge amount of info available on diet doctor for free… If you want to delve deeper then you can subscribe but there is nothing to force you into paying for anything and I admire his desire to remain commercial free. I usually send first time LCHF’s who want to know more there because it is such a great free resource.

(Karen Parrott) #23

Both Mark and Robb somewhat alluded to the try , it and modify it.

Don’t hassle those who add beans back in (Mark) and don’t be so extreme- but do find your optimum with LC (Robb) at the State of the State at PaleoFx 2015. There was a huge push from Mark to not interact with internet trolls for himself and he urged us to also focus on well, Primal living. Huge mention, very directly from Robb that the no grains (Paleo) movement had a huge PR problem. HUGE. That the movement could be stalled for quite a while until we each did our part in not taking each other down.

LCHF was very debated that year, Keto was new to that space. Now cross-over is common and very accepted between the groups (cross-fitters, Paleo, Primal, regular folks who got well, maybe less so in AIP for good reasons)

Great take aways for the LCHF/Keto groups, too. I fear that the fractions could delay folks like me, who need to use LCHF/Keto for Food Addiction right here right now from even learning about it. Hoping Keto Fest 2017 will help be a bridge to those who need remission from FA. Eating yourself to death is unpleasant. Keto is an awesome tool, but how can I recommend someone to a group that is extremist one way or another?

The person I’m most like in the Paleo/Primal/LCHF/Keto world is Robb Wolf. Similar food sensitivities, I do better on low carb/ mild Keto but not always and not too low. Similar auto-immune and food sensitivities.

#24

I personally err on the side of tolerance so criticizing other lifestyles is not my thing. I was paleo for 2 yrs before transitioning to keto and I would just like to clarify a couple of points. 1. Paleo is not necessarily low carb. 2. The premise of paleo is a fundamental desire to eat as close to whole and natural foods as possible and to minimize consumption of things that are relatively new to the human diet. So, obviously paleo folks do not expect to eat exactly like caveman. However, early man did not have ready access to grains nor dairy nor industrialized food like substances. Just like keto, paleo has always has it’s desserts, including chocolate, honey, coconut sugar, maple syrup, stevia, and even dried fruit. I see no problem with Sissons’ products. People know how to read labels and decide accordingly.

(eat more) #25

i’m still trying to wrap my head around this…in this case Mark Sisson and the Primal brand/lifestyle are the advertisers…on the Primal site…can’t get more “pure” than that…not like he’s promoting Twinkies
Primal has always been a for profit “movement” that gained attention from a commercially published book back when there were actual brick and mortar bookstores…

with subscription based membership i don’t think that the public pays for the creation of the actual information…they pay for the platform that allows them to view the information, that the site’s owner/team decides on…there is no “purity” in that…i read some of the comments and the “public” wasn’t in support of the post…

if there was moral/ethical “responsibility” involved wouldn’t everyone just share information for free?

i personally would rather see ads that i could ignore or embrace than pay a membership fee and…let others do their own thing…unless they’re kicking puppies and then it’s game on lol

#26

I have nothing against him making and selling products. he seems to be very clear about what they contain. No issue with that. Whether it’s Paleo or not… well I think that is all a bit wanky anyway so…

The fees that come from paying for access to the Diet Doc paid area go directly to funding the info they fill it with, inc obviously all the wages to maintain site etc. You can access it for a month with no charge or obligation so you can actually watch a lot for nothing anyway. You can at least try before you buy a month at a time anyways.

Both work for me. We all have to make a living.

I agree re selective advertising as well. What I hate is when you go to a nutrition type site and they have that free flow of any old ad coming up via google with crappy diets and pills and the like. I am happy to see adverts for things I might like to buy!

(Keto in Katy) #27

My thoughts exactly.

Who is he to be calling out someone else for what they do with their website and their community?

For several months I have been a paid subscriber of the Diet Doctor website because I like the resources and I want to support their efforts to help people. But I am considering canceling my subscription now.

(Larry Lustig) #28

Seems like the guy making the chocolate bars has every right to make and sell them and the guy who is disdainful of them has every right to hold and state his opinion. Not sure where the problem is.

After all, we all recognize the right of candy makers to sell candy and our right to believe and state that people shouldn’t eat it, right?

#29

I know what you mean but I think the tone of the attack is unwarranted really. I understood it with Atkins products. This just feels a bit like he was in a mood and decided to have a go!

(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #30

I’m actually not sure I could get wholeheartedly behind that proposition.
At least, I could get behind a proposal to strictly regulate the sale and marketing (and pricing, and taxation) of candy in a similar way to the way tobacco is highly regulated (at least in Europe).

(Sandra Watson) #31

I get the slippery slope thought… personally I think primal should be non packaged, but that is just how picky I am. Your mileage may vary :wink: PS, LOVE both the diet dr and Mark S. :wink:

#32

i’m still trying to wrap my head around this…in this case Mark Sisson and the Primal brand/lifestyle are the advertisers…on the Primal site…can’t get more “pure” than that…not like he’s promoting Twinkies
Primal has always been a for profit “movement” that gained attention from a commercially published book back when there were actual brick and mortar bookstores…

Mark Sisson has been in the supplement business for a long time. Beachbody used him to create a protein powder supplement for their workout programs many years ago (there’s a video in some of the P90X type workouts; can’t remember which).

(eat more) #33

poking around on amazon i see that he has frequent releases…the “new” primal blueprint came out this past november…i wonder if it’s “more” keto?
the primal kitchen release coming in june

in case anyone is interested :blush:

i pulled out my OG primal blueprint to see what my brain missed the first time…prob a lot due to impatience and having the wrong focus lol

#34

My understanding is that Sisson’s core values are real foods. So when I look at all of Eenfeldt’s complaint articles I see he has a point. He claims it isn’t just one candy bar. It’s a lot of lollipops, candies and sodas. It’s a trend.

Except, then I went to the Primal Kitchen website and I couldn’t find any soda or lollipops.

I’ve come to not trust the Diet Doctor in recent years. Far too many articles have his personal biases in the way. Case in point was an article he wrote about advising women to be wary of keto when breast-feeding (which was relevant for my family). Turned out he needed to edit his advice as he’d taken it too far.

Taking things too far is a trend with Eenfeldt.

That said, I can’t stand Sisson’s production-line blog process, backed by a team of 20 researchers. Bleh. I like real people blogs. Not production lines. I don’t feel I’m hearing a real person. It seems to me it’s a juggernaut sales campaign.

Eenfeldt has always had the courage to write his mind, even when it might be unpopular. I could never imagine Sisson doing that.

Then again, perhaps Eenfeldt’s standards would lift if he also used 20 researchers to verify he wasn’t taking things too far.