Lower fat, higher protein method

(H) #1

Hi. Just putting this out there to see if anyone has tried the lower fat, higher protein version of keto where the end goal is fat loss. I know it’s not strictly keto but after over two months of not losing weight but sticking to the diet, I really need to start thinking of tweaking the plan to make it work as a fat loss tool.
I’ve seen this discussed by Amy Berger and others and it seems to make sense to me since I do have fat to lose, though not a huge amount.
I’m just looking for a way to get the fat loss to work given that everything is made more difficult by an under active thyroid and also being at the lower end of loss (only about 10-15lbs).

So far I’ve carried on following the diet because the overall health benefits have been good but lately I’ve felt more sluggish, less energy and a bit fuzzy headed. But I do ultimately want to lose the stubborn fat and I’m feeling more impatient o we the last two weeks that it won’t move at all. It’s just the same.

My blood sugar is 4.4-5.2 depending on when I test so that’s gone down.

If anyone’s had a similar experience that would be great.

I’m also thinking of giving up ‘liquid’ dairy as ie heard this can impact a slow thyroid for the worse.

I’m currently eating between 1500-1700cals a day I’d say, but more towards the lower end of that except at a weekend.

Thanks!!

#2

Sounds like my experience as well (except I don’t think my thyroid is clinically low).

(H) #3

It’s so annoying !!! Have you experimented with high/ low fat intake or do you just continue?

#4

I’ve definitely stopped trying to add more fat than is already in my fatty food. I’m focusing more now on not snacking and aiming for TMAD (not counting morning coffee with HWC). I think when you’re not really overweight, calories matter, and my consistent ~1700 per day, along with a sedentary lifestyle, has been a major obstacle. It’s so hard because I’ve read that low energy means you need more fat (or electrolytes) but I’ve come to accept that those approaches do not work reliably in my case.

(Allie) #5

I don’t track anything but have increased protein and stopped adding extra fat to everything. My goal is more towards muscle gain now but if I lose a bit more fat, so be it. I feel good so am happy.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #6

Thyroid issues complicate matters. It’s not just a matter of eating less fat and/or more protein or reducing calories. What you eat matters as much or more. I don’t necessarily endorse any of the following links. I merely include to give you an idea of some of the complexity here. Hope this helps.



(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #7

Protein needs are highly variable, so we have to experiment a bit to find the best proportion of fat to protein for us.

Protein is not generally used for fueling the body, being harder to metabolise and more useful as building materials for tissues. Our energy generally comes from the fat and carbohydrate in our diet. If you find yourself craving protein, you should eat more, but sometimes hunger also comes from not eating enough fat. You have to figure out what works best for you.

On the whole, however, the body does better when we give it more food, not less. The metabolism can adjust to match intake over quite a large range, and many people on these forums have found that, paradoxically, their weight loss didn’t begin until they started eating more food, not less.

P.S.—I should probably add that by characterising vegetarianism/veganism as faith-based, I did not mean to disparage the motives of people eating that way. Vegetarians and vegans are certainly welcome on these forums.

It should also be mentioned that is perfectly possible to eat a vegetarian ketogenic diet, if one wishes to do so. A vegen keto diet is harder to manage, though it can be done, but it requires strict attention to nutrients and probably will require some supplementation.

(H) #8

Thanks!
I see a lot of sense in this especially for someone like me who has tried every diet under the sun. I’ve also become interested in the concept of keto reverse dieting.
I do think I need to try something different in terms of the ratios because the higher fat version isn’t working in the way I’d hoped. Hopefully taking out the added fat element might kickstart the fat loss…

#9

Yup! Upping protein and lowering fat is one of the many tweaks I’ve made over the years to get fat off. I eat 1g/lb bodyweight minimum and if I want to be able to loose fat I don’t let my fat intake over the 85g range or so. I’ve also found I can eat more calorically if more of it is coming from protein and still loose.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #10

Preface

I have ‘normal’ thyroid function. Or maybe on the high side of ‘normal’. My dad suffered from hyperthyroidism and eventually in his mid-30’s had it nuked, which was the standard treatment of the day. He spent the rest of his life gaining weight until his last couple of years when he went low carb. Not even keto, lower carb. He lost a lot of weight just from that. Assuming there’s a genetic disposition here, I inherited a very active - though within normal range - thyroid.

So I’ve never had much of an issue with weight/fat gain no matter how much or what I ate. Until about the decade of my 60s when I gained some weight, about 30 or 35 pounds excess. I lost that easily and quickly when I went keto and have had no issues with weight/fat in my 4 1/2 years on keto. So my story may or may not be relevant. :pleading_face:

Comment

For a couple of years on keto my macros were: 2:1 fat:protein grams and 4.5:1 fat:protein calories. I felt very good with these macros and maintained both satiety and weight with no problem. Several months ago I got a craving for more protein so changed my macros to: 1.48:1 fat:protein grams and 3.33:1 fat:protein calories while retaining the same caloric ‘window’. For awhile I felt good with the reduced fat and increased protein. However, no longer. It’s not exactly that I feel ‘hungry’ more often between meals as I feel ‘unsatisfied’. Additionally, I feel like my degree of ketosis is not as healthy as previously.

The ketosis thing is interesting. And I should mention that for me ketosis is very important. From what I’ve read and learned over the past few years, I’ve concluded that ketosis is the natural and most healthy metabolic state for humans to be in. It should be maintained ‘consistently’, by which I mean ‘all the time’ as much as possible for best health and longevity. For a very long time I didn’t think protein had any/much affect on ketosis and said so many times on this forum. Now, however, I’m changing my opinion on that. If I were actively pursuing muscle gain, it might be different. But I’m not. I just want to avoid muscle wastage as I continue to age. Maybe once in a while I’ll need to eat more protein - but for the most part I think less protein and more fat (aka 2 / 4.5 macros) is the way to go.

So I guess what I’m saying here is that your total fat and protein intake, your macro proportions and total caloric intake may change from time to time. That in fact there maybe no ‘perfect’ diet that will never change. Be aware and be willing to adapt.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #11

Also, I wanted to comment on veggie/vegan diets. I have personally killed animals and eaten them. It was not a pleasant experience. Many of these animals I raised and nurtured from birth. They had names and individual personalities. I cared for them and related to them as individuals. So I can empathize with those who find ‘killing animals’ problematic and don’t want to do it. I don’t want to kill animals any more either. But I still want to eat them. Why?

Our human and pre-human ancestors spent 3+ million years evolving on a diet of mostly, almost exclusively, animal meat and fat. Our metabolism has adapted to thrive on a diet composed primarily of animal meats and fats. Yes, we can eat other stuff derived from plants. But it’s inferior both in nutritional quality and quantity. To eat a healthy vegetarian diet you need to eat very carefully. To eat vegan is even more difficult. And, finally, a really BIG problem is that plant fats, aside from coconut, palm and palm kernal, and cacao have enormously unbalanced omega 6 and 3 ratios.

So if you want to eat veggie/vegan go ahead. Just don’t be surprised if your health suffers.

(H) #12

Thanks that’s really helpful. It all makes sense when you read the various articles but for me, I just want to see the outward results that people enjoy on keto.
I’ve tried various different tweaks in the past few months even the IF method but literally not a pound will shift.
I also get the point about not eating enough but compared to what I was eating, the average is up bu about 250 cals a day, sometimes more so in terms of ‘reverse dieting’, although the methodology isn’t quite so scientific as that, I am actually consuming more.
The only thing i haven’t tried is lowering the fat intake; so I will try that. I definitely don’t want to gain muscle so that was something I was worried about; though I suppose that risk is different in women anyway.
I do like the diet and I’m also now looking into maybe having a proper thyroid doctor look into my bloods to see if there is something else wrong too!

(H) #13

Good tip - ok I’m going to give this a go!! I had wondered what to take it to. I remembered you’d told me about your thyroid issues too. I’m Trying to book in with a thyroid specialist but it’s actually quite difficult to find one where the reviews aren’t a bit rubbish- I think a lot of endos (in the uk at least) are mainly diabetes specialists and I’m not sure how in tune they are with the ‘right’ way to treat a thyroid.
I went once before and he just referred me to a dietician who spent 30 minutes telling me I should eat more salad and less junk foods (!) (I mean I suppose she was right but my point is that they’re used to dealing with people who have a fair bit of weight to lose and who are diabetic, so it’s an ‘easy’ win to tell them to eat healthier. For me, I do think I eat healthy already (and did even before I went keto really) and I don’t have that much to lose so the solution isn’t quite as straightforward (to my mind anyway)

(H) #14

It’s interesting you say this because I do think that my weight loss issues now are underpinned from me being overweight all through childhood and until I was about 20. I was about 200lbs at one stage.
Although I lost that weight and have kept it off to between 145-150 for the last 20 years, I think that period had a lasting impact on metabolism; not only from true fact of being overweight but also, the horrendous effort that I had to go to to keep that weight off. Some say that once overweight the body is predisposed to that state and I think there is a lot of truth in that since I always seem to gain weight far easier than friends who’ve always been slim, even into our 40s.
So I do wonder whether the factors- metabolism, thyroid and history are just a perfect storm for seeing no results on the scale …

#15

EXACT same thing here in the states! If you don’t have luck with the endo look into Hormone Optimization or Anti-Aging clinics, they’re more about putting you in the range that gets you results and not a lab range, down side is you pay out of pocket for them.

(Edyth Ekmark) #16

You are right!

(Martin) #17

With less fat - more protein, wouldn’t you be just getting less energy and at the same time, increasing glucose?

Anyways, my two cents, it could be stress leading to high cortisol levels (sleeping problems perhaps?), prohibiting your body to lose the fat and/or hormonal imbalances - both of which, I think, are tied with thyroid issues.

(H) #18

I did wonder about this but I just don’t know. It’s just an idea I’d heard about that seemed to make sense. I’ve decided to give it a go and see what happens anyway…

(N A) #19

For me, lower fat, higher protein has defintely worked in the past.

But usually it takes longer for me to get into keto, and my total cals are also quite low when I am doing that.

My total cals are quite low atm too, with a more classic high fat version of keto.

(Martin) #20

Absolutely! Good luck and keep us posted!