Low numbers ... yet another thread


(S Hardy) #1

Hi,

After being in ketosis for two months exactly, with ketones ranging in the 1.7-3.2 mmol/l ballpark, I suddenly find myself struggling to reach 1! No change in the diet, no carbs, perhaps a little glass of (low sugar) wine here and there, but I see no explanation for this…

As a case, yesterday I had a filet mignon in butter with an oily salad, nothing unusual. An hour after the meal I was a 0.3 mmol/l :thinking:. I had been at 0.9 in mid afternoon fasting.

I guess my question is: is this normal? I started to read threads regarding low numbers readings but after a few it did not seem like any looked like my case.

Thanks!


(Full Metal KETO AF) #2

I believe that nutritional ketosis is above 0.5 mmol/l. You’re likely seeing lower numbers now because you’re becoming better at utilizing those ketones and you were spilling out lots of them in urine etc. Now your body is starting to produce them on demand I would think, closer to what your actual needs are. This is a good thing, you’re showing signs of being fat adapted. That’s how I would interpret your situation. It might be time to put aside the test sticks and trust the process. They become useless at a certain point. :cowboy_hat_face:


(Full Metal KETO AF) #3

Also I would add that chasing ketone numbers is futile, they are going to fluctuate all through the day just like blood glucose numbers. They are never stable.


(S Hardy) #4

It is my understanding that pee sticks are useless once you stop excreting ketones through urine but I measure blood ketones. I’m ready to agree with your explanation about the reasons why the readings are lower now, it makes sense. But is this to be expected with everyone “adapted” or is there absence of any general pattern in this regard?

Thanks


(Full Metal KETO AF) #5

You could try to push your ketone numbers higher by cutting carbs further than you do now and increasing fat to protein ratio to higher fat levels and a bit less protein but if you’re getting results now why worry? You didn’t say whether you felt like you were stalling out or not feeling as well. How you feel is more important than a number. I think testing immediately after a meal is always going to show lower ketones because you’ll be utilizing dietary fat after eating and so ketone production will be less while your body uses what you ate. :cowboy_hat_face:


(MooBoom) #6

Same thing is happening to my ketones (I use a blood meter not pee sticks). I’m regularly pulling up readings of 0.4mmol. I’m not worried at all because I know from past experience this just means I’m finally fat adapted and my body is more efficient at producing ketones. I’m getting great results, feel fabulous and far from stalled.

Once I get to this point, I stop testing ketones unless I’m doing something different, i.e. EF or testing the impact of eating something new.


#7

Nothing you’ve said is alarming. But there is no normal, Dr Phinney says everyone is different, for some people their ketones start low in the morning and build up throughout the day, for other people they start high and go down …

A meter has helped me catch hidden carbs several times so it is very useful but chasing any particular number is mind boggling and worse than futile.

You can have prime athletes highly keto adapted with readings of 0.4 mM all day … so “bigger is not better”. The time of day matters, time after a meal matters, this, that and the other … too many other factors …

Only look for zero or non-zero. Actually it’ll never be zero, even people not in keto make about 0.2 mM … but you get the point.

It’s best to take readings at the same time of day, e.g. 7 or 8PM and stick with that. And maybe another one at 7AM.

If you get knocked out of keto, ketone production all but stops, it’ll probably read 0.2 or 0.3 mM for about 2 or 3 days (i.e. until all the glucose, glycogen gets burned off). Exercise if you want to burn it off faster.

On lazy days when I do the couch potato dance, it can be 0.3 or 0.4 all day, yet I may not have even had 10g carbs. It seems my liver thinks no point in producing tons of ketones if nobody’s going to use them!

KCKO


(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #8

Also, track at T0, T60, T120, and T180 if you really want to see what effect eating has.

My ketones always go down after eating - why produce when you have fuel coming in.


(Karim Wassef) #9

The body adapts. In the beginning, it floods the system with ketones because it has no idea what you actually need and would rather waste ketones than have you die… or faint…

But as it learns your habits, it can be more and more conservative. This is actually a sign of being more fat adapted. It will only generate as much as it thinks you need.

So the days of generating massive ketones just to pee them out are past… mostly…

If you switch things up, you can confuse it again. I use a number of techniques like fasting, sauna, HIIT, weightlifting, OMAD, and even extended fasting.

Hope that helps :smiley:


(S Hardy) #10

I read you guys, I also thought that low readings could potentially mean I’m fat adapted except … I feel like shit most of the day.

I have very low energy and struggle to train decently.

I think I’ve had it with the keto experiment. I have decided mid April to be the time I will switch to paleo. My understanding is, if your body knows ketosis, with paleo it is going to switch between sugar and fat according to my meals.

It can’t get worse than what I endure now. Thanks for the help though.


(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #11

I was getting frustrated with low ketones and I switched to both eating one meal a day (OMAD) and supplementing with MCT oil. My ketones went back up, usually by supper. They aren’t always high in the morning, but are usually around 1.0 or higher.

You might want to consider either/both for the next few weeks and see what your results are.


(S Hardy) #12

In itself, I don’t mind low ketones if this is what it means, a more efficient metabolism. My girlfriend started this diet on the same day I did, we eat exactly the same things, spent the first month logging everything into Carb Manager to make sure we didn’t make mistakes, along with keeping track of glucose and ketones.

She feels very energetic and good. She’s scared of leaving the diet now! Although our first objective was to do it three full months and then exit into something more manageable for the summer and the camping season … ahem :hotdog::beers::wine_glass:

I spent the winter reading and educating myself about the misdeeds of carbohydrates so I have no idea of going back to my old ways. No way. But if this body won’t allow me to be 100% functional in keto, i have to pull back a bit and find something that is. This is why I’m thinking about the paleo diet. It is a healthy one.


(Little Miss Scare-All) #13

My Keto Mojo numbers this past week have hovered around .5-.8 and Ive been good with my carbs. Keto start date was Feb 4, 2019

I chalk it up to signs of fat adaptation and as long as im .5 or anywhere above, thats fine. As long as your carbs are 20g total or net, there shouldnt be much of a worry. Let the process do what it does.


#14

Low energy can be due to many things, it does sounds like a deficiency. I seriously doubt you’re deficient in glucose and carbs so I can’t see how going paleo would help :slight_smile:

When we first get into ketosis our body throws out various items like they’ve gone out of style. After a couple of weeks the situation normalises but it can be a shade too late for various items like potassium and magnesium. Our body can’t just make those so it has little chance of making up for lost ground.

I’ve had to take magnesium and vitamin D supplements. I had been deficient in both for years, well before keto, but ignored it.

I also ignored the advice of the best keto doctors which was to take a multivitamin supplement when going keto.

As much as I hate popping pills I can see how they are necessary. The quality of veggies these days seems to have gone down, magnesium levels in the soil are low for example …

Hopefully you find your thing, Don’t let it drag on for years like I did.

Cheers


(S Hardy) #15

Thanks. I take magnesium, iodine and vitamin D supplements. I also eat quite a bunch of greens.

Paleo isn’t all about eating “carbs”. It’s actually a low carb diet. Except more varied in vegetables and fruits among other things. Whatever I’m missing, I have a good chance of finding it over there.

But my gf is pulling hard to make me just keep keto a little longer. I haven’t given up … yet.