Low-Motion HIIT (WBV+WeightVest+KB/DB)

hiit
whole-body-vibration
weight-vest

(PJ) #1

I am N=1 experimenting with a idea I had about what I’m calling low-motion HIIT.

As you know, major motion exercise (especially explosive) is a lot more difficult for seriously oversized people, risking joint issues, injury, not to mention keeling over if it’s too much. It’s also more difficult for people who are elderly, injured, differently-abled.

Weight vests offer the chance to add a little bit of gravity weight to the individual with a bit more distribution and whole-body effect, and IMO slightly lesser risk (assuming it’s not overdone), than simply carrying or lifting a weight. It does not have to be much. My vest is currently 16.4# (of which 4.4# is the vest itself).

WBV (whole body vibration) platforms offer the chance to do a few things while either standing still or even sitting (or even OFF them and merely resting a limb on them) – or while in motion (e.g. weight lifting or other resistance exercise). My particular platform is 2400# load rated, vertical motion, 2mm amplitude, 10-60Hz options, 9" high and 30"x48" no attachments, so you can do weight lifting on it, or ground exercises if you’re not fully stretched out. I posted a lot more about this tech for any interested in this other thread: WBV (Whole Body Vibration). DOMS, Test, GH, Cort, lactate, strength, speed, balance, etc

WBV has many very cool elements to it. It triggers most the fast-twitch fibers meaning if you lift weights on it you get more muscle fiber involvement. Due to the speed of the vibration (referenced in Hz for cycles per second), leading to the muscle motion, it increases blood flow a lot, and increases lymph flow a lot. If standing still, it functions much like ‘active recovery’ - like a low to medium walking or so level of exercise… except you’re standing still. And because of this motion, even if you are standing still, it tends to increase your heart rate.


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So this got me thinking. Partly because I would like to do HIIT but am not yet strong enough or lean enough to do it really. Partly because I recently began wearing a weight vest and certainly notice how it kicks my heart rate up. Partly because when reading stuff about HIIT it struck me as sadly ironic that the people most desperately in need of its results are the ones least able to do it.

So I thought: What if you could combine WBV (increases heart rate), a weight vest (increases heart rate), and – whatever might be needed – merely standing still and holding a weight (kettlebell, dumbell, whatever) – to actually bring your heart rate to the target % of max, and keep it there for 30-90 seconds?

And then step off and sit down and rest… if that is what works for the lower target heart rate %… if it’s too low, one could stand, with the weight vest that would keep the pulse a bit elevated still. If on the WBV, holding the weight wasn’t enough to get the heart rate there, a small amount of motion could be added. Even stepping off the plate and back on would kick HR up a little for someone heavy, wearing a vest, holding even a light weight. And if holding the weight wasn’t enough for the top%, even a tiny bit of motion would increase pulse. Tiny.

Not done yet, bear with me:

Tracking my heart rate: check. My apple watch is announcing my HR to me either every 30 seconds, or when I flip my wrist a couple times, OR whenever it is higher than the recent spell, it’ll tell you constantly if the number’s rising higher – so you have a narrative as it’s going up. (This is triggering my long-dormant biofeedback obsession – I used to be real involved in stuff that included that, decades ago. I’m going around the house now to figure out what every action, wearing the vest, does to my pulse. :slight_smile: )

My digital timer (or phone) both magnetically stick to my squat cage pole so tracking the time part is easy.

Part of the idea of this ‘low-motion hiit’ is not merely that someone could get their heart rate up without having to move much if at all. It’s that done this way, one could be very careful about it. It doesn’t rise dangerously fast done like this, if the vest and weight aren’t insane. It is very easy to just step off and sit on a stool or stand or flip the switch off. You can experiment and adjust all the details to equal the HR you want (though of course with each event it is likely to improve hence change a little). So for people who may be in danger even in the heart category (not just physically helped by the idea because they can’t sprint etc.), that seems ideal.

So tonight I did a single-cycle exploratory trial on this idea, to see IF I could get my heart rate to a HIIT % of max, and keep it there, and to see how much it would come down if I put down the weight but stood still on the wbv, and how much and how fast it would come down once I stepped off it entirely and sat and relaxed.


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Initial stats:
N=1 Person: 5’6" (actually 5’ 5 3/4"), ~350# lbs, female age 54
Weight vest 4.4# unloaded, currently with 6# added in front and 6# in back.
WBV is VibePlate 2mm vertical 2400# rating 10-hz, set at ~35hz for this.

Misc for context: heart valve replacement (bovine) 3 years ago. Whole body atrophy from many years sedentary then a couple bedridden, currently have achieved enough lower body strength for slow stairs… upper body still very weak. 30# barbell military press is about a 2-3 rep max.

Heart rate range formula is:
Max: 220-age
Low end of the target heart rate: 180-age
For both, a +/- 5-10 (add for trained/fit, subtract for untrained/sedentary)
Due to my age, size, heart condition, fairly weak musculature and activity level, I subtract 10.
So the low side of max target heart rate range is ~116 bpm
And the max of the range is 156 bpm.

HIIT defines “80-95%+ of max target heart rate” for active period
(This can also be done by VO2max or max power output but I’m using pulse.)
To be maintained anywhere from 5 seconds to 7 minutes depending on protocol

Selecting 85% as my max HR minimum goal, .85x~160=136.
So my goal will be to get my HR to at least 136 during ‘active’ part of cycle
And I choose ideally 60s as the active duration… if my body will go for that.

HIIT defines “50-70%” of max target heart rate for the rest/recovery period
I will target 60%. .60x~160=96. Humorously that is not all that far from my resting pulse… one of the things that being so out of shape makes different than those more fit.

This duration is up to the protocol. 2:1, 1:1, 1:2 are common. I will use 1:2.
I choose 3-4 cycles (depending on what my body does in response).
This is for the future. Tonight is a 1-cycle trial solely to see if I can get my pulse UP to the ideal ranges.

I am choosing to ignore the warmup/cooldown, because… well, I’m standing still. The muscles are being triggered yes but it’s very small and fast instead of the large motion and body exertion ordinary exercise has.

But for this trial I am just doing one cycle and then writing it all down before I forget the details.


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Prior to trial:

  • Resting pulse currently varies from highest 80s to lowest 90s. (20 points higher than during fasting cycles, I am currently eating throughout the day.)

  • I gave myself 60s of rest stillness standing first, after walking to and stepping on vibeplate (wearing the vest).

  • Activate: Pulse (heart rate HR) was in the 130s after a minute (60s) standing still on VP-active @~35hz. Note that WBV commonly increases pulse for about 3 minutes then it levels off.

  • My dumbbells currently are 5lb, 10lb, 15lb, 20lb. My kettlebells currently are 4kg, 8kg, 12kg, 16kg. I chose the 16kg KB, hanging in my hands for 30s, then swung it up and held it in my arms at chest level for 30s (seemed harder). After the total 60s my HR was 167.

  • put KB down and relaxed still standing on active VB. After 60s, HR 153

  • After another 1 minute, HR still in 150s

  • Went and sat down and relaxed. HR fell fast for the first ~30, then after 60s was still 120s

  • after another 60s was 100-108 varying

  • stopped measuring then and did other things.

Mostly ripping off my socks because I forgot to remove my chucks and socks and the vibeplate makes my ankles, where they stretch-grip, itch like crazy. :slight_smile:

Later after I’d sat back down and been still awhile (still wearing vest), the HR was back in the 89-93 range it had been when resting before the trial.

Conclusion

I think the results of this exploration demonstrate that in fact this low-motion HIIT is a completely workable idea.

Obviously I can’t measure it scientifically, or see how much worse it is compared to sprinting or something, but the base idea of it appears to be totally do-able.

I showed that I could get to the target – actually exceed it – while standing still (albeit with light weight vest and a kettlebell in my arms), and that removing the weight dropped me to the lower range which is the ‘rest’ range.

So I think the idea has merit. I am going to begin a “low-motion HIIT” protocol officially tomorrow, and we will see what it does to my stats over time.

PJ

PS: Anybody with comments or critique, that is why I’m posting it here. I have the internet-skin of a rhino, don’t be shy.

PPS: I’m wondering now if the max heart rate should be adjusted upward based on the resting pulse being higher than average, or if this should not change regardless.


(Andrew Smith) #2

Hi,

First time poster here who has been doing low carb for about 6 weeks now and also combining it with HIIT kettlebell training which is new to me but enjoying it immensely. I had a similar interest to yourself around a 7 exercise kettlebell workout I am doing in accordance with Tabata protocol (20 secs workout, 10 secs rest, 8 sets per exercise with a 1 minute rest in between. I warm up by doing a minute of star jumps). My results are as follows:

For me it seems that the exercises which involve the most movement are those which raise my HR the most. For the other exercises, using heavier weights would increase my HR however am finding that lack of strength is the issue, not cardio fitness. PS I use a Garmin Forerunner to track my heart rate which is very useful.

Will follow this post with interest and thanks for posting.


(PJ) #3

That’s a great tracker you’ve got, I looked at the details on amazon.

Today I thought, since last night I had tested with the vest to see the heart rate results of various things, I would try the same things without the vest, and see how much it differed. Or, shorter story: I wanted to see if I could reach the HIIT numbers easily enough, and stay there, without the vest. (Short answer: not really, no.)

The real-time graph on my phone while I was doing this – which looks like a lost ant trail lol – is because my pulse was much too low so I was doing various stupid stuff (barely running in place, and eventually lifting the 16kg kettlebell) to see what it would take to get it up higher (and it wouldn’t stay up).

My standing-still rate on the wbv without vest is 120s. It’s at least 10bpm higher with the vest, more if I just finished doing something more taxing.

I am trying to find an apple watch compatible app that will export my continuous heart rate info from the Health app (which it records, and everything I’ve got has access to). Most these apps charge you money just to “send you a PDF chart” of it. I want the bloody numbers! In a csv or whatever, so I can graph them myself, not look at pretty pictures. Why is this so hard, gah.

PJ


(PJ) #4

I had a much longer wearing (while walking and pushing a fairly heavy grocery cart) last night than I’d had prior, and was very weary. I stopped for heart rate in 159-165 zone a few times. I had planned to raise the weight a bit but am glad I put off doing so.

Since I didn’t raise the weight load, my next experiment plan – which is simply to keep raising the weight on it until the WBV and vest alone (not lifting or holding weights) will reach the HIIT target heart rate goals – was not in the cards.

But since my first experiment with the vest at the same weight, was only for about 1-2 minutes and included lifting and then holding a ~35# weight to reach that heart rate, I thought I could go ahead and try a test for a full four minutes, for a couple reasons.

First, because allegedly WBV raises pulse for around 3 minutes and then levels off, at least, some research papers say that.

Second, because I wanted to see if my heart rate could get to the required point without the lifting/holding a weight addition.

So I tried that. While interesting, it was not sufficient to get the heart rate to that level. Pretty much it goes to about the low 130s. If I get too comfortable, the high 120s. If I make myself move around just a little bit, the low 140s. But I would have to add weight or more motion to go above that.

I actually think my aerobic capacity is slightly improving, which makes it harder to reach those goals with even the precisely same effort/load as I had previously. It’s been so long in my past since I was athletic that I had forgotten, but at least in my prior life (feels like the dark ages), I tended to adapt to aerobic conditioning, like with sports or biking, surprisingly fast. Maybe everyone does. If I did this daily I would be adapting faster, I imagine.


Meanwhile I am having trouble with my apple watch apps. I paid to upgrade the “iCardio” app so I could export my heart rate numbers in CSV to it. Mind you, ALL apps you use on the watch tie into the ‘health’ app for the apple watch, so it is all the same data source. I have three different heart rate apps, plus another that shows it to me but doesn’t track it, plus a pedometer (possibly the most inaccurate pedometer on earth lol) that also shows pulse. My heart rate was being spoken aloud by one of the apps as I did this, I love that one as it’s audio so I don’t have to look. And later, when I looked at the various apps, they all showed the same data, which of course they should, since they all are simply tying into the same data source – the health app.

Except iCardio. When my pulse was 110+, it said it was 96. And when my pulse got up to 150 (when I was finished on WBV and taking off my vest), it said it was 110. And when I looked at its charts and export it, that is what it recorded. I am completely baffled at how this could have a different number than all the other apps, since there is only one data source, they all tie into it, and all the others agree. And I know they are fairly accurate just by how I feel/felt during the experience.

Unfortunately iCardio is the one I actually want to use, both for the CSV numbers export and the easy little color graph like I showed above.

So I will try again tonight and hope for a better outcome. If it’s off again I will consider it a bug and write the s/w support.

Edited to add: so basically, unweighted, to a 16.4# weight vest, same setting on the WBV, is about a 10-15bpm difference.


(John) #5

This will be an interesting follow. I like that you are also running a little experiment while doing an exercise program. That is a good way to stay motivated. Keep up the great work and Im Sure you will continue to get stronger. On a side note I didnt realize those shakers actually worked. I just thought they were an old gimmick from the 80s. Good to know


(PJ) #6

Most of the market’s chinese crap. There are a few good ones though. And most vibration does you harm not good (most research is on that, for industrial stuff). So it’s important to read up on it first (see thread I linked).

I admit that at first, the idea made me think of this hilarious machine my mom had in probably 1969, that had a big fat strap you put around your hips and leaned back into, and it vibrated back and forth. :slight_smile:

But I’d been loosely following the tech on these things for probably 20 odd years online, anything I could find. Turns out they finally got good enough to be worthy, and my best friend bought me one when I was most in need of lymph-related heart surgery recovery. It’s expensive as hell and I want to put it to good use! :smiley:


(Bunny) #7

Thought this post by Joseph Arcita was interesting about low motion HIIT/MISS/LISS:

3J. Aerobic Exercise

The body burns primarily glycogen when the heart rate is above 70% of its max. Therefore, aerobic exercises such as HIIT are good for burning liver-glycogen stores during induction, but such high-intensity exercise is not recommended once under ketosis as once muscle-glycogen stores are depleted, the body will begin catabolizing mainly muscle-mass under any high-intensity activity.

The ideal aerobic exercises to perform when under ketosis are MISS (medium intensity steady state) and LISS (low intensity steady state).

HIIT = Periods of high-intensity activity followed by an abrupt switch to low-intensity activity.

MISS = Maintained medium-intensity activity (lightly jogging).

LISS = Maintained low-intensity activity (walking).

3K. Glycogen Refeeding

A glycogen refeed is simply the ingestion of carbohydrates for a set period of time with the main intention of replenishing the muscle-glycogen stores. If you weight-train then it would be a good idea to implement some type of refeed (either a cyclical refeed or a targeted refeed).

Here is an in-depth article on everything you need to know about cyclical glycogen refeeding written by Lyle Mcdonald himself: Training on the Ketogenic Diet. …More


(Bunny) #8

My post above was supposed to be for you accidentally hit the wrong person on reply.


(PJ) #9

That’s super useful information, thank you!


(PJ) #10

edited: never mind the article is answering my questions :slight_smile:


(Andrew Smith) #11

Hi Bunny,

Thanks for the reply which was very interesting. By coincidence, I was watching a video by Dr Ekberg on youtube where he recommends only doing HIIT for typically 4 sets until you reach HR Max and then stop. This raises metabolism but does not start to deplete muscle. This has really caused me to rethink my HIIT but thankfully means I can reduce my exercise duration and still receive the benefits!!
I am now looking at 36 hour fasting to induce autophagy and weight loss to hit my ideal weight.
Am loving how the keto/fat burning/autophagy/exercise journey develops as one gets into it.


(PJ) #12

ASB the question I had put here originally had to do with, whether four rounds of 60 second HIIT were really a glycogen worry. The article did address some different things. But in the end it was targeted more at athletes, and I don’t think I am doing the degree of exercise that is likely to face needing to eat a boatload of carbs every weekend so I survive my 7 minutes of training (4 1m HIIT, 3 ‘recovery’ level, then finish after the 4th). Still it seems important and if I expand beyond this rather limited effort I have currently, I think it would surely become vital.

Part of my focus on the low-motion HIIT idea however is to make the process as relatively easy (aside from the heart rate obviously) as possible, because I’d like to think this could be transferable to many people not very capable of more motion for a variety of reasons. Anybody able to go jog for 20 minutes without actual danger or damage in the process is probably outside the target demographic I was thinking would most benefit from the idea.

(FWIW the ‘low motion’ would not include jogging/walking as your quote and his article gives. The idea is to make it so that, worst case, you hold something heavy or wear something heavy, you stand on a WBV plate; but you don’t have to ‘move’ much.)


(PJ) #13

Well, I have done two more trials and it’s getting worse not better.

Apparently my idea about HIIT being possible based on heart rate without much if any motion being involved was not realistic. It worked for me the first day.

But my body is adapting. Now, even with 25.4# weight vest, same Hz on WBV, even holding the 16kg kettlebell, my heart rate doesn’t get anywhere near as high as it did initially. It started out in the low 160s when the vest was only 10.4#, and now even with just over twice that, and otherwise the same variables, I can barely even get it to 140. I have to move around a lot and lift the barbell a few times and such just to try and push it to 150, and it falls instantly.

So… perhaps Minimal-Motion HIIT is possible, but low-motion – meaning you don’t move, aside from standing on WBV – is not working for me because just wearing the vest around and the effort to test and document it is improving my cardio fitness too much to reach the 90% level with that little motion.

There is some humor in this, somewhere…

PJ