Looking for food suggestions (frustrated 2.5 month carnivore)

(Snikwah) #1

Hi all… I’ve been carnivore for about 2.5 months now…eating 5-6 pasture raised eggs, an avocado and 1-2 cups of black coffee in the morning around 7:30am and then a roughly one pound ribeye or ny strip at about 1:30pm. I know the avocado isn’t carnivore…but they don’t seem to bother me and as far as fruit/veg go, they are one of the best. No other food or snacks in between. Only other thing I have been doing is a magnesium supplement and one unflavored LMNT packet in water per day.

This diet change was literally overnight, from a standard american diet. I was at or above 300g of carbs per day prior. Took weeks for my body to get over the change. I never weigh myself, so I’m not sure how much weight I have lost but it’s somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 to 20 pounds. I have shed a lot of fat though. I mostly just go by how my clothes are fitting and I’ve gone down 2 pants sizes from 36 to 34 and a shirt size from large to medium.

This leads me to my issue. In the past, I have had several gout flair ups so I know I’m somewhat prone to them. They were very painful but only lasted 5 or so days in one foot. Last weekend 11/12, I started to get a flair up in my right big toe. This progressed over the next few days into my foot and then ankle as well. Tons of swelling and pain. Then yesterday, 11/19, my left big toe started. I’m just at my wits end with this. I can hardly walk or stand for any length of time and this is orders of magnitude worse than any of the gout flairs I’ve had in the past.

“People” always say that red meat is particularly bad for gout and that is basically all I’ve been eating. But some, like Dr. Berry, also say that red meat isn’t really an issue for gout. I have also heard that uric acid can be stored in your visceral fat and when you have a rapid fat loss, tons of uric acid is released into the body. I have been praying this is the root cause of my issue and trying to just make it though till this acute gout attack is done. But it’s been a full week now, and it still shows little signs of it getting better. All the typical things that are always suggested to avoid, I have not been eating for months now…sugar, processed foods, carbs, seed oils, etc.

With all that being said…I have decided to stop eating red meat for 1-2 weeks and see if that helps clear up this issue. So I’m trying to find ideas on foods to eat. I was thinking boneless skinless chicken thighs for one. Would be easy to grill up a ton for my meals. I don’t really have problems eating the same thing all the time or anything like that. But I’d like to maybe get some other suggestions from other carnivores.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

Welcome to the Ketogenic Forums!

Dr. Berry is right; it isn’t the red meat that is causing your flare-up, it’s the high-carb diet you ate for years. The uric acid crystals in your toes will dissolve, but the process takes time. As Dr. Annette Bosworth recommends in the case of kidney and gall stones, the best thing is to persevere and let your body take care of the problem.

The association of gout with red meat is the result of the fact that sugar used to be very expensive, until modern refining methods were developed a century-and-a-half ago. Up until that point, gout was considered a rich man’s disease. The rich could afford plenty of meat, so that was considered the culprit; nobody thought to blame the sugar and white flour that only the rich could afford back then. After the new-fangled refining methods began to make cheap sugar and flour available to everyone, gout became accessible to all levels of society.

By all means try giving up red meat, and see what happens. I doubt it will make a difference, as long as you don’t replace the meat with carbohydrates. Poultry and fish are good choices, though you may need to work to bring your fat content up, especially if you don’t want to eat chicken skin. Good luck, and keep us posted with how you are doing.

(Robin) #3

I suspect the issue is not related to diet. Although that’s the first culprit we look for, especially when embarking on a new way of eating.
Keep us in the loop.
Good luck

(Snikwah) #4

Thanks, I have been hoping my issue would alleviate itself as I process through the uric acid in my body. This pain is just insane and is honestly pretty unbearable. Anyone who’s had an acute gout flair would say it’s some of the worst pain. It’s literally constant, regardless of sitting/standing/laying down. I just can’t take much more of this. Knowing everyone is different and can have different reactions to all sorts of things…I just hate to think all the red meat is possibly contributing to the issue.

I’ve been drinking about a gallon and a half of water a day, trying to help process through the uric acid…I’m just at my wits end here. lol

(Robin) #5

Ugh. That’s got to be terrible. I’ve never experienced it or known someone who had it. Can’t imagine.

(Marianne) #6

I’m sorry for your experience. My brother is prone to gout, and from him I know it is very painful.

In his case, I believe it is from too much uric acid. It’s not caused by red meat, however, because he rarely consumes it. He is notorious for not hydrating, even with the gout, in spite of his wife begging him to at least have some water.

You may be right about uric acid releasing itself from your fat stores (?). Sounds plausible to me. I’d keep to your carnivore diet and maybe consume other proteins in addition to beef (pork, chicken). I think the main thing would be is to drink ample amounts of pure water to help flush out your system.

Good luck to you!

(Megan) #7

Hi Snikwah, Dr. Shawn Baker says that people who have gout can get a flare-up during the transition phase of the carnivore diet but it tends to go away. The pain sounds awful! Can you get some decent pain killers from your doctor while your body deals with getting rid of the uric acid?

(Snikwah) #8

I’ve watched a bunch of Dr. Baker’s content, but honestly I’m always a little skeptical of people who talk in absolutes. Like one way is the “best” for everyone. I kinda get that vibe from him. I certainly hope he is correct tho.

One thing for certain is that I’m never going back to eating how I was eating my whole life. I have always thought of this current way I’m eating as temporary…and that I would eventually transition to more of a keto diet after 3 or so months. I’ll never go back to eating sugar, bread, crackers, processed foods, etc.

(Karen) #9

Hi, yes chicken and turkey, although they are not very fatty and as we carnivores fuel on fat you may start to feel your energy levels drop. Pork, nice and fatty and lamb also can be nice and fatty. Keep up with the eggs. Fish, seafood and shellfish. Chuck some mussels into an omelette, a nice filling omelette especially with a bit of grated cheddar in there too. There are various cuts of pork but I must admit to enjoying a slow roasted pork shoulder with very crunchy crispy crackling and that can last a few days … erm the pork meat that is, not the crackling lol thats eaten the day I cook it no matter how big it is :smiley: Bacon, another staple in my fridge. I sometimes buy cooked ham or beef and yesterday had cooked pork slices, very nice. I buy most of my food reduced in price and slap it in the freezer as soon as I get home from shopping. I can eat the same thing day in day out but it is nice to have some variety. Today I have a 500g reduced price pork mince defrosting that I am going to make some burgers with later, considering dipping them in egg before frying so I am sure they will be super tasty.

Good luck with it and I am with the others that this isn’t to do with red meat. My dance partner/friend got horrendous gout a year or so ago. He puts it down to getting completely drenched from head to toe after his bus was cancelled and he walked all the way home from town. He doesn’t eat much red meat and just has a standard diet.

#10

Nope. Wrong direction literally. IF YOU want Carnivore ‘to help heal’ you.

Key being you are ‘still in dieting and bad info’ from life internet out there about gout and other issues that means you are ‘tweaking’ immediately zc and that won’t work in the long run at all.

OK, think this-----and this is ALL chat in good friendly form :slight_smile: from me to you and take what you think applies and if it seems off disregard or go learn more about what I mention to ‘find you in this’.

Dump avacado. BEST WAY into carnivore. all in. dump that avacado now and while you feel it means nothing, it might but ya don’t know unless ya dump it LOL

next…you are very early. 2.5 mos. could mean easily you are getting toxin reactions from dumping toxins from the body inflaming gout and joints and more at this time so it could ‘be layers’ of issues SO early in zc. Time corrects this and lets you learn what is happening with time for more healing.

You are ‘one of those’ who is going to have to ‘fight a bit harder and with a tad more pain’ than another coming into this plus ya came from SAD straight on in and you got transition/adaption issues to handle. Key being IF YOU DO the plan as required, yes you will have to deal with the toxin dumps, the body healing and change and repair, but IF YOU tweak too much and go ‘lean’ and ‘tweak zc’ more you will do more harm than good. You won’t be able to hold this change into this plan longer term.

So you are that more ‘rare’ newbie that came in from SAD and did not walk that detox/adapt line coming in from lower carb and eating change before…tons of us did that but you being more rare means you are gonna ‘feel’ bigger changes and they can be massive to those having to deal.

You are battling sugar build up, sugar withdrawl, sugar effects in the body and man oh man they hit ALL PARTS of our body to the ultimate…but key is if you go off red meat and good red meat fat, even pork and good pork fat into lower forms of meat like fowl you then have that issue of your body missing the best nutrients to make the changes it needs. You could start to feel very hungry and then you are like, darn the plan ain’t working to hold off hunger and more…

ok this is how ya eat. Keep the hoofed animals in for sure. use some fish/fowl seafood as you want easily but make those more ‘side dishes’ to your critters on the hoof…lamb, beef, pork, deer, bison etc. Got 4 feet and walks on the hoof, eat it LOL the other stuff is more a side meal with it. l lb. ribeye steak with 6 slices bacon. done. 3/4 lb. delish burger with sardines on the side. Done. Think surf and turf type combos but in the end keeping the ‘big dense more heavy fatty nutritent dense’ meat on the hoof is a key to zc truly.

I feel ya walking this tough step truly in that I read it many times on zc forums of those who have to get thru hell to get to heaven. 2.5 is very very early…but I promise in another month holding tight plan, eating well the good meat and fat that works best for us, all you need WILL CHANGE YOU and I know this sounds like an empty promise but those who walked it will tell you…keep on going, it does change and does get better and we do learn how to bob and weave carnivore to suit us as the body repairs and truly heals :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

best of luck, hang in there tough, us carnivores are toughies cause WE types need it all in…and we work thru it and make it work day to day for the ‘big heal’ to come and it does, but time only gives us this. Sending hugs and read more zc stuff!!!

we got this thread:

we got:
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=c3ce2744cc0d1e06JmltdHM9MTY2ODk4ODgwMCZpZ3VpZD0wOTQ4OGMwZC1kODFkLTY1NzItMjExYy05ZTExZDkzMTY0ZmMmaW5zaWQ9NTE4MQ&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=09488c0d-d81d-6572-211c-9e11d93164fc&psq=zero+carb+health&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuemVyb2NhcmJoZWFsdGguY29tLw&ntb=1

don’t know why that link went that way but when I click it I get to the Zero Carb Health website :slight_smile:

best of luck!!

extra is facebook and while many despise it, it is great on ZC/Carnivore forums if you use it for just that like I do :slight_smile:
Strict Carnivore
ZIOH, Zero’ing in on Health
ZCH, Zero Carb Health
UK Zero Carb and while I get you might be UK, tons zc info in general ya know and fab people!
and a few great more :slight_smile: there is support and info out there for you in total sites to help!

(FRANK) #11

I’ve had gout flareups also, but I believe mine comes from my alcohol consumption. They are painful and the last time I hobbled into Urgent Care and they prescribed me a short term steroid which worked.

My problem is I love my vodka martinis.

(Robin) #12

@FGH well then… you have the answer already. I had to give up alcohol because I was a full blown alcoholic. But if it gave me painful gout, that surely would have been reason enough to quit.

(Megan) #13

Yes that kind of thing irks me no end. No one walks in your shoes but you. No one walks in my shoes but me. How is the pain now?

Curious - what was/is your reason for such a huge dietary change? Congratulations on your progress so far!

I, like more and more people these days, didn’t embark on the carnivore woe to “heal” anything. I am doing it (1) for weight loss and (2) b/c I am finally admitting to myself that without very firm walls around me, re what I can and can’t eat, my eating is out of control. The kind of carni I am doing is I eat whatever I want from my list of food, however often I want and however much I want. Getting rid of all grains, sugar, seed oils and processed foods has lowered my inflammatory markers and reduced arthritis pain significantly. I imagine clean keto would have done the same.

(Snikwah) #14

Pain is better, but I gave in and started taking ibuprofen. I always try and not take medications if I can. So I’m not sure if the pain is better because of that or it’s just getting better. The swelling has gone down, but that could be from the ibuprofen as well. I’ve just been trying to think what could have triggered such a bad gout flair, months after cutting all the normal triggers people say to avoid. Everyone is different and perhaps I do just need to give it more time and see if I can come out on the other side.

As far as why I made this change, partially because it’s just my personality. I rarely do things halfway. I’m kinda an all or nothing person. Willpower has never been an issue for me either, so if anyone could just up and…oh I dunno…basically change their whole world overnight…I’m your guy. lol
I quit smoking cold turkey back in 2002 after smoking a pack and a half a day for 10 years. All this really started from a completely random youtube video that popped up on my suggested page from Dr. Sten Ekberg about eggs. It said eat 5 eggs a day for 30 days…I just thought damn that’s a lot of eggs…so I watched it. I have always loved eggs but would have never eaten 5 a day because of what the common talking points are about eggs and cholesterol, etc. I was so impressed with his presentation skills and just the way he explained things that I started watching more of his videos. My innate skepticism of authority made me start really digging into the “recommended” nutrition. Started down that rabbit hole and found lots of other channels in the keto/carnivore world. A couple weeks later, I decided to give it a try. That was the first week of September. I was never really overweight or anything because I run…but my diet was, like so many others, full of carbs, carbs and more carbs. I started attempting to add it all up and came to the conclusion it was 300g to 350g per day. Going from that to literally just eggs and steak overnight really gave my body quite the shock I assume.

(Megan) #15

Very glad the pain is better. I’ve watched a fair few Sten Ekberg videos too, good guy. “Recommended” nutrition is scary huh. I don’t know if there is anyone I trust now when it comes to nutrition. Even some of the “good guys” have their agenda or blind spots.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #16

Remember the Dudes’ two dogmata: (1) show us the science; and (2) find out what works for you. That keeps us safe from blindly trusting “experts,” even the keto ones. If they don’t cite studies in their posts or lectures, beware!

#17

Snails.

#18

this was me too. I need firm boundaries and I can’t handle carbs at all. I do this for stability in my life around food. I got great benefits from carnivore and good healing and well being, but I am not one who could never do ‘clean Keto’ and hold plan. I tried. I sure can relate to what you mentioned tho.

#19

Until very recently, it would have been impossible for me. 5 eggs per day is way too little! :smiley: One reason I didn’t do an egg fast out of curiosity was that I couldn’t eat that very few eggs. (And vegs. But when I “lost” my vegs, I did try. I lasted for 8-9 hours and it was worse than my fatphobic experimental day. Not because of the too few eggs though, I couldn’t handle the fattiness. It was nauseating. I did a short fat fast years before, that was fine.)

And I am like @MeganNZ and @Fangs, apparently. I don’t feel I need any particular healing (but surely tiny things can improve and I want whatever I can get), I want to be ME instead of some very different carb-changed person and I want to finally eat properly to avoid overeating and even lose fat eventually. The two are correlated but carbs made me hungry too, it didn’t take a big amount for that to happen, I never lost fat on mere keto and overate in my carby times. As I lowered my carbs, various things got better. They may look small compared to others as I was fine on high-carb too but I who live my life, appreciate them very much.

(B Creighton) #20

Your gout was probably caused by the SAD. Humans actually run kind of a high uric acid level compared to other animals… Indeed, all the great apes do. There are a couple of things that can cause uric acid levels to rise. A primary one is fructose. When it is metablized into palmitic acid, uric acid is a byproduct. So a diet high in sugar will cause a uric acid buildup and crystals to form. But, it is not the only thing. Foods high in purine can as well, as uric acid is a byproduct of its digestion. Alcohol, esp beer is high in purines and are metabolized along the same pathway as fructose. Red meat, esp the organs tend to be high in purines, as are shellfish. Tuna and cod are among the highest in purines among fish. If you are having a gout flare-up, you probably want to avoid these foods until the gout crystals dissolve a bit. I eat wild Salmon about twice every 2 weeks or so. I also eat chicken thighs. Chicken is not purine-free but is better than turkey. The rest of the meats I eat, all have a fair amount of purine. I sincerely doubt they are enough to give me gout, but yeah, once you get it, it is known that they can flair it up. I really believe fructose is the main culprit in developing gout, but genetics plays a large role. Humans are just kind of susceptible to it because uric acid runs on the high side in all of us.

If it refuses to go away, you might consider trying a more vegan style of keto.