Knowing how many carbs to eat

#1

Started Keto in Jan. I’m pretty strict keeping carbs at 30 or below , mostly 20 and below. My ketostix have never shown higher than small so I got a blood glucose/ketone meter to verify. I have checked it later in the afternoon and have gotten readings of .4,.7 and .5.
I have lost 9 lbs and My body fat has gone from 33 to 27, so all good with that.
My question is, with the readings being so low and My carbs being so low, I was wondering how I could add in carbs if I wanted without worrying about being bounced out of ketosis, or do I need to stay very strict until those numbers rise.

(Karen) #2

I brleive you can, after a time , increase slightly, or periodically.

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/c/progress/maintenance

K

(Chris W) #3

one of the things about sticks is they are really only good to show you are making keytones, I just did another post in a different thread about my watching the sticks everyday several times a day and how they changed. If you are highly athletic and take the stick reading at the wrong time you will show little to any keytones. These are designed to show the excess not how much you making at any given time. So may have already used that excess, one of the best times to check if you question your level is the morning right after you wake up. The claim of hydration level comes up and I really have not been able to show much difference in the excess level of ketones. With your blood readings your pretty solid in ketosis, I am not an expert on the blood meters, but most people begin to know when they are in ketosis and when they are not based on how they feel I certainly can.

So as for adding carbs, well you can do what you like, you may have an insulin reaction which could very likely end your production of keytones. If your level of BF is north of 27 my advice to you is keep going and wait for fat adaptation which is probably not far away, that changed a lot of things for me. Now I have no need or desire for carbs and even if I do get some extra and drop my keytones way out with the extra flexibility that fat adaption provides you don’t have to worry as much. Long term though you really should not, at least IMHO be adding carbs in if you are actively try to loose fat/weight. It seems to be a common theme for some people esp those who test the limits of carbs to try and add them back in at some point. If you go long enough or in at least in my case I now find sugary things too sweet and bread or buns taste blah, the wrapper that food comes in. I say I don’t ever want them back in my life any great extent.

One other thing I have noticed, people who actively are bring there carb levels to north of 20g on a regular basis seem to have a harder time making to fat adaption, I rarely go past 12g on any given day mostly being eggs and spinach and avc. It took me eight weeks or so with a few mistakes in there, I was simliar level of fat weight was 250 and 44 male.

#4

probably best to get your mind around NEVER adding carbs back in again. carbs are the source of the problem and that isn’t going to change. if you are very active you could probably consider adding “clean” carbs back in (small potatoes, sweet potatoes, wild rice, legumes) but thats only if you engage in very strenuous exercise and even them i personally don’t see the point.

(charlie3) #5

If I got a magic pill that made me immune to all the metabolic illnesses I’d stick with keto for how I feel, how easy it is to be lean, and the ability to fast or skip meals. I’ve figured out how to stay at 20 net carbs but I don’t know how to do 20 total carbs and there’s no time to learn working long hours full time.

I’m sure I don’t fully understand the carbs vs net carbs issue, may be because it hasn’t been explained well enough or because nobody I’ve listened to really knows. Does anyone here know of published experiments on this? Are there some papers we can read that focus on carbs vs net carbs?

The best clues that I might be fat adapted or in ketosis are the ease of tolerating hunger for hours on end every day, how calm I feel most all the time compared to the past, and the different way my muscles feel between workouts compared to past experience with exercise.

(Chris W) #6

Carbs net is total carbs minus dietary fiber. How that is worded on food packages depends upon your country.
Example
in spinach for one cup per google:

Total Carbohydrate 1.1 g 0%
Dietary fiber 0.7 g 2%
Sugar 0.1 g

Your net carb for that one cup is .4 g . So you add that up with your others for the day. I typically eat 3-4 cups of spinach a day. I am not that accurate in measuring so I go with 2g for simple math.

When I say total carbs I did mean net carbs I should probably edit that. That is what everyone refers to here not really total carbs. The net carbs really only plays into vegetables or were there is dietary fiber concerned. If something has a total cab and no fiber you use that total carb count.

Keto adaption tended for me to give all your indications, fat adaptation was more of a physical response that I did not need to eat as much, while exercise levels and duration went up. Also I did not have issues recently getting kicked out of ketosis and jumping right back in. Whereas in the past it took me a week to get back on the horse at thanksgiving when I was new.

Without glycogen store your muscles do feel different, that is also part of being adapted to fat, you have a carb buffer zone that does not effect the ketosis as much if you do spike the insulin some.

(charlie3) #7

I understand the reasoning about fiber and what can or cannot be digested. One of my early influences is Dr Westman’s famous page 4 which gives instructions to people in his program. He says 20 g carbs, no net carbs, just 2 cups of vegetables then eat all the meat and fish you want. In a later video he said page 4 is what the Atikins doctors gave to their participants and he chooses to rely on that. I use net carbs, mostly because the mainstay of my diet is a very large salad with calories added via olive oil, cheese, meat, etc.

May be Dr. Westman has hard science for his restrictions or may be he’s just being conservative and sticking to something tried and true. May be his restrictions apply too his program but not to a lifetime of eating after that. It seems to me there ought to be some published research somewhere that looks at insulin response to net carbs vs total carbs since it’s an issue for everybody who want to be “in ketosis” what ever that really means.

#8

Once you start fat adapting, ketostix become more and more useless, your a couple months in at this point, don’t waste your money on them. Your effciently using ketones at this point, no over spilling them into urine anymore. I’ve been keto forever and I’d be lucky to show trace on those things, including during fasts when my ketones are up around the 2.0 mark which is HUGE for me, I’m one of those 0.5-1.5 people. Regardless of what measurement type you use, it just doesn’t matter. If you want to see if you can get them up make sure your watching actual carbs and not net, but understand that higher ketones have a plus, but not necessarily faster fat loss. I’d also recomend taking a look at your diet and make sure you not being too restrictive which is why most people want to increase carbs. The main difference between Keto and Atkins, is with Atkins you systematically increase your carbs until you find your tipping point and that’s where you can stop, problem with that is before most people find that line, their cravings come, their sugar brain fires back up and down the crapper they go. If you start upping carbs, keep that in mind.

(Chris W) #9

I have no knowledge of his page 4 and have not it heard about until this moment but I do respect him and plan on reading it now. I have listened to a lot of the podcasts and never heard that discussed either. That said most of my carbs intake are still south of the 20g anyway without the fiber discounted. So either way it has worked for me, my actually carb cut off point is way north of 20 at around 55g or at least it was when I was about 25 pounds heavier. I agree about the science end of it I want to know, but my understanding about insulin is that it such a dirty and dynamic response that it would be hard make it a study item unlike say glucose which tends to follow a more easy to predict dynamic.

#10

Thanks,
I dont really want to give me an excuse to eat junk food or cheat. I’m comfortable and its not very hard at home or going out.
I’m would like to add in more veggies or some fruit, especially with summer coming.
Keto pizza, just some additional variety.

(Chris W) #11

I love fat head pizza, I was eating one last night when I was typing the response. I would not add fruit, not for a while if ever. I have not had that many issues eating out, my feeling is nobody stopped me from getting into a bad state, why would they care if I am trying to go the other way and I have found servers and chains that are almost always willing to make me happy.

(Steve ricci ) #12

3 months later I still keep my carbs below 10-15. The reason is, if I start to look forward to eating more carbs its easier to continually increasing without even noticing and before long your overeating carbs again. 2nd, keeping carbs low i loose the taste and don’t care about them. I can be around them and not be bothered at all. I don’t get the watery mouth thing anymore. I have one cheat meal every 4 weeks and have no problem picking up were i left off. I’ve done even get any real satisfaction anymore and may drop the cheat meal all together.