Kevin Rose interview with Valter Longo

(Dameon Welch-Abernathy) #1

Not entirely sure how I ran across this episode of the Kevin Rose podcast but Valter Longo has come up in discussions in the past. Here’s what I took away from this:

  • Eat more like your ancestors (within a certain framework)
  • Complex carbs are ok
  • Fasting more than 12-13 hours a day is bad for you (lolwut?)—increases risk of gallstones
  • Your biomarkers may look good fasting but you still die before you should
  • Do a fasting mimicking diet once every few months (and then you hear what sounds like a native ad for a kit that supplies “the right stuff” for this fast)

Not impressed with this guy.
What am I missing?

(Bunny) #2

• Eat more like your ancestors (within a certain framework)?

A: Organ meats?

•Complex carbs are ok?

A: Highly processed and refined carbs?

•Fasting more than 12-13 hours a day is bad for you (lolwut?)—increases risk of gallstones?

A: No? Apple Cider Vinegar ACV & Lemon Juice to a glass of water every day?

•Your biomarkers may look good fasting but you still die before you should?

A: If your brain does not get any glucose from gluconeogenesis?

•Do a fasting mimicking diet once every few months (and then you hear what sounds like a native ad for a kit that supplies “the right stuff” for this fast)

A: Empirical research dictates different!

.

(Janet) #3

You are missing that he sells a five day meal plan called Prolon (doesn’t that sound tasty) and a book out soon to promote it.

(Dameon Welch-Abernathy) #4

Yeah, when I heard Kevin describe the meal plan from a box in glowing terms, I immediately went “no thanks.”

(Tim W) #5

This is one of my pet peeves with media today and, once we recognize it, we can better defend against it. in short, everyone is trying to sell something.

Longo seems to know his stuff, either that or he was able to BS Dr. Rhonda Patrick. He’s taken that knowledge and is using it to sell the “one week fasting mimicking diet” gimmick, I guess that’s a good thing if it gets more people interested in low carb/fasting/eating better? BUT, I always question the trustworthiness of the man trying to sell me something.

Here’s a little trick (according to the author at the quantified body) you can “mimic” the “fasting mimicking diet” by eating two avocados a day, easy as that, no box of food in the mail required…

Now, you gotta ask yourself, am I shill for the avocado lobby??? :smile:

I’ll tell you the answer right now… Nope… retired military here, don’t need to sell anything, not trying to sell anything… That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

(Dameon Welch-Abernathy) #6

Watch not only for what they overtly sell but what they don’t cover because of which advertiser pays the bills. For example, I doubt the Nightly News wouldn’t say a cross word about drugs, given the pharmaceutical industry sponsors most of the newscasts.

Conversely, it’s the one reason I was able to more readily accept what Dr. Fung had to say. Sure, he makes money on his books and the IDM Program, but he gives away so much of his knowledge for free. Also, I don’t need to buy anything from him to apply his knowledge, I just don’t eat. :slight_smile:

(Tim W) #7

That’s a great point! And he talks about that in his writing and podcasts, plenty of people have an aversion to his message simply because his protocol won’t make them money!

I detest the “monitization” of a movement, for example, all of the folks trying to sell paleo this or paleo that, with lots of folks jumping on the “keto bar this” or “keto supplement that”. I’ll admit there is a very narrow window of “needs”, for example, a keto bar that I can travel with, ok, I guess, a keto shake I can make at work, ok, I guess, maybe you are filling a need for someone and, in that case, it’s a win-win, they have a need, you fill it, you make money, they continue to adhere to the WOE, so… ok.

I have found that many places won’t bat an eye if you sit down at a restaurant and open up a tupperware container of keto snacks/fat bombs etc. So no need to buy keto stuff just to eat in that case, although I do HAVE to start carrying my own olive oil, so many places are slinging crap oil and red wine vinegar (which I understand to have sugar).

I guess I just see other ways to solve problems then to buy something. For example, if you don’t have time to make a keto lunch to eat the next day at work (is a tupperware container with boiled eggs, cooked bacon, some nuts, olives and oil that hard???) then, just IF until you get home… No keto chow/shake/bar required… I’m in the minority though, where I’ll stay thank you very much :smile:

#8

From what I remember, Longo was impressed enough with fasting research that he tried for many years to get oncologists to agree to have their patients fast for a few days preceding and during chemo, and he couldn’t get anyone to sign on. As soon as he made it a prescription - with a special box of food - then people finally agreed, and he did a small study but with really nice results (dramatically reduced side effects, and - many hypothesize - probably improved results since then not only are our health cells healthier, but you go into chemo with weakened tumor cells).

I’m guessing that once that path became clear (that you can get some of the effects of fasting but not completely fast) then he just put all of his focus on that. Add business/$ to the mix and you have a great set-up for confirmation bias.

(Dameon Welch-Abernathy) #9

It’s also probably easier for the masses to digest: “eat this special mixture of chemicals” versus “eat nothing” to improve your health.

It’s always a wise idea to follow the money when evaluating any idea.

(Michele) #10

He was in the Fasting documentary I watched just a few days ago. It was made in 2012 and included his research about fasting and chemo.


How strange, it’s like he’s done a 180.

(Dameon Welch-Abernathy) #11

Which is why I was surprised to hear what he had to say in the Kevin Rose podcast.

That said, money tends to corrupt ones opinions.

#12

Yes, Dr Longo has been interviewed several times in the past week. Chris Wark (Chrisbeatcancer.com) is not a supporter of meat eating. He interviewed Dr Longo. Notes from the interview are interesting.

I am fasting today, experimenting with water kefir to see if it impacts my blood glucose or ketones. Gotta go. Time to get blood. :grimacing:

(Justin Jordan) #13

The thing about for real scientists (as opposed to be people who write about science, or clinicians) is that the job nearly requires a narrow focus. Longo is a really a reliable expert on the things he actually studies - he’s done actual experiments with everything from yeast to people, on fasting and what it does.

But outside of his area, he’s not really an expert.

I’d compare this, directly, to Phinney on fasting. Not his area, and subject to his preexisting biases.

Longo also has two qualities that factor in:

1 - He’s extremely cautious. Like, extremely cautious. This is a good quality in doing science, but it means he’s not going to recommend stuff like keto, as a rule, because the long term (and we mean, over a life) is not what he’d want.

2 - He puts a lot of faith in epidemiological studies (too much faith).

#14

Just wanted to say what an excellent post this is! I think you’re right, and that it’s much more nuanced (and interesting) than just Longo is “wrong/bad” or “good/right.”

(Justin Jordan) #15

Thanks!

I think Longo (and a lot of people) have a lot to offer, even if I don’t agree with everything he says. But a binary good/bad is something we should try to avoid, I think, because we end up tossing out stuff that can be useful to us.

As a for instance with Longo, he’s got pretty good evidence that his fast mimicking diet works, which indicates that, relevant to people here, that having some fat during fasts probably doesn’t negate the autophagy benefits. That’s useful, but if you just dismiss everything Longo has to say, you miss that.

(Dameon Welch-Abernathy) #16

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, so the saying goes.
Not that I think Longo is a “broken clock,” it’s definitely more nuanced than that.
But still, the fact there’s an obvious profit motive does make me at least a little skeptical.

#17

@phoneboy and @Justin_Jordan
One really nice thing about Longo’s focus and his study results: some cancer patients and oncologist who never would have considered fasting might now consider it. He’s framed it (and literally packaged it) in such a way that it doesn’t trigger the usual panic that the word “fasting” elicits in most people.
I agree about always noticing the profit angle - just to be aware of it and how it might be influencing things - but if the studies/research come first and then someone realizes there’s a way to make a business from it… well, there are worse things for people to be selling, and hopefully there are enough folks out there talking about keto that it’s also available as an option for those who are willing to try different things.

(Dameon Welch-Abernathy) #18

There’s something to be said for that.