Ketosis doesn't matter

(Wendy) #22


Interesting thought.
But I still don’t think he’s got it correct on some of his theories such as inflammatory meat. Though perhaps grain fed meats may be a little inflammatory.

I have to admit I fell asleep before it finished though. :roll_eyes::smiley:

(German Ketonian) #23

Don’t you think your judging him a bit harshly? He’s expressing his experience as a clinician. He treats hundreds of people and states his experiences. He doesn’t say saturated fats are bad. He said that red meat is inflammatory.

(Alec) #24

Is there evidence for this?

(German Ketonian) #25

No! And that’s no the point…

(Erin Macfarland ) #26

I completely disagree about the red meat comments, I basically live off fatty rib eye and my inflammatory markers are as low as they can be. I don’t think it’s helpful to categorically dismiss animal foods as they are highly satiating and our bodies evolved to eat ruminants. It also makes eating low carb high fat much more simple and financially accessible when you can rely on things like chicken thighs, bacon, and fatty ground beef as your dietary staples. Fish, nuts and avocadoes are expensive. I’m all for cheap and delicious foods that help people stay eating this way forever!

(German Ketonian) #27

That’s exactly as anecdocal as the evidence of the good doctor… and that’s fine! Do what works for you! I have been living off nuts for one month now, with addition of some green leafies, olive oil and fish. I feel amazing! Without any meat, shock and horror!

My thing is: Different strokes for different folks, and I wanted to share this video because this perspective is something different for people, who do not do too well on alternative approaches (like me)

(Wendy) #28


I have no issue with people eating other sources of fat and protein. There is the low carb high fat/ keto version of the Mediterarian diet for one. I just was disagreeing with his science as far as animal fats being inflammatory.

If what you are eating works and you feel great then keep doing it.

(Chris Robertson) #29

He isn’t exactly saying ketones don’t matter. He is saying that you can loose weight and be fat adapted without them. He is also giving very expensive ketone supplements to people so that they don’t have to be in ketosis to reap the benefits of ketones. If ketones didn’t matter then he wouldn’t be giving supplements. Ketones don’t make you loose fat but do add mental clarity when your body is in a starvation state.

(Allie) #30

Does seem he’s contradicting himself yes.

(Alec) #31

The problem is he has set himself up on the internet as a keto expert saying that eating red meat is bad for you. Based on what? Nobody has a problem you or anyone else not eating meat, no dramas. I do have a problem, however, with misinformation around the keto WOE like this from a purported expert. Show me the science!

(German Ketonian) #32

How do you know it’s misinformation? It seems to work with his patients. And it seems to be inflammatory for_some_ people. His experience ist what he states. Just as Dr Berg discusses grass-fed and pastured as the only way to go. It’s OK! Knowledge, anecdotal evidence and opinion aren’t always clearly distinguishable. That’s the nature of human communication. Even the best studies contain motivated reasoning. And I like the fact that he is providing an alternative perspective

(Brian) #33

I found it somewhat interesting. At times, I wish the interviewer (sorry don’t remember his name) would have spent less time talking and more time listening. I also wish the doctor would have been allowed to flesh out more of the diet that he recommends for his patients and variations between patients with different goals. (Although when he started to flesh out what veggies would have been on a certain of his lists, he failed to recall which ones they might be. Hmmm.)

I have heard people talk about there potentially being a difference in the omega 3 / 6 / 9 profiles between animals raised in different ways and fed different feeds. It’s not a can of worms I’d want to reopen as I think most of us have a pretty good idea of where we stand on that subject. I tend to want to err on the side of caution but that’s a personal decision. I do wonder whether that matters in the inflammatory nature of red meat that the doc seems to be talking about.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #34

Too much of the omega-6 is actually unhealthy, and while we want omega-3 and omega-6 in the right proportion, they compete with each other for absorption, so we don’t really want too much omega-3 either. (We need some level of omega-6, because it is essential, just not too much.)

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #35

My impression, from the various nutrition researchers whose work I follow, is that the whole concept of “healthy” and “unhealthy” fats is derived from Ancel Key’s cherry-picked Seven-Country data, and that the supposed association between saturated fat and heart disease vanishes if the data from all twenty-two countries he studied are included in the analysis. In the years since he published that study, other studies have shown that saturated fat actually has benefits to the body, and monounsaturated fats are particularly healthy.

Huh! And here I thought I felt so good! But the doctor always knows best. NOT! :bacon:

(Erin Macfarland ) #36

Agree 100%, there’s an approach for everyone!

(Allie) #37

I tried to finish it but when it got to the part where he said it’s absolutely impossible for anyone to gain muscle on keto, I’d had enough so turned it off.

(German Ketonian) #38

sigh

(Jane) #39

Tell that to @Rgbigun or @CountryFriedZen !!!
:rofl:

(Steve) #40

He’s a neurosurgeon. Surgical doctor. A cutter. So, his professional training is further removed from understanding biochemistry, metabolism, etc than your GP. Unless he can demonstrate some fellowships that he’s done to augment that (which I somehow doubt he’d do - his surgical peers would disapprove - all the politics, etc), he really has no more credibility than anyone else on the internet.

My cousin completed his medical training and subsequent residency in the US - he said doctors aren’t taught enough about nutrition in their training to even fill a single chapter in a book.

I thought it funny how he thinks because he’s set the limit for his patients at 40g of carbs per day, that none of his patients will be in ketosis. Umm. I guarantee you some of them are. Especially the larger ones. It’s proportional guys. Someone that weighs 100lbs may have a hard limit of 20g/day to stay in ketosis, but most of us likely have a real limit much higher (it’s just safer to stay under it, so we stay there).

(Brian Rudene) #41

So many bro science guys make that claim. They’ll do keto for a couple months, lose weight and strength, and then go say “see, did keto. strictly. for two months. and i lost weight, strength and muscle. you can’t gain muscle on keto…” Sigh. If only they’d have kept going, once they were fully fat adapted they’d see muscle growth take off – without having to put on all the fat and crap. Thankfully I read Volek, Phinney and listened to Dominic D’Agostino at the beginning so I knew what to expect if I kept going. And sure enough!