"Ketosis doesn't matter" & trying new protocols

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #1

I found this video (below) very interesting; the TL;DR is that he’s a neurosurgeon who also seems to have a business set up around getting people fit using a modified “ketogenic” diet of about 50-55% fat, moderate protein, and low-moderate low-GI carbohydrates. I was particularly interested because that’s probably how my macros shook out when I had the most success at the beginning of doing LCHF protocol.

Another very interesting note is that, though he doesn’t use this language, he distinguishes between fat adaption and ketosis. You can, it seems, be fat-adapted while at a low level of ketosis as measured by blood or urine ketones. You can, it seems, be burning fat even if you aren’t in ketosis – at least that’s my layman’s understanding of what’s being said here.

Having tried quite a few variations of LCHF and keto, this is probably the one I will try next: I’m going to increase my monounsaturates, reduce saturates, reduce fat in general (less cream, less olive oil on the oven-roasted veg), and I’m going to (gasp) increase my intake of low GI veg while pushing my resistance training workouts. I may add back Metformin too, though I suspect one of the main reasons my body has reached this homeostasis is that, despite the keto hype, it’s hard for your body to put on muscle mass on such a low level of carb.

I will continue with these “heresies” until I find what works for my body. Stay tuned!

(Jane) #2

Not sure what keto hype you are referring to… but tell that to @Rgbigun !!

Anyway, kudos to you for continuing to search for what works for you. We are not all one-size-fits-all.

(Jane) #3

Just wanted to add to my last post.

My husband has never had much muscle mass and for the first time in his life (at age 53!) he is finally able to build up his chest. The only thing that has changed is he joined me 8 months ago doing a keto diet since he does all the cooking. He didn’t need to lose weight.

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #4

I’m jealous!

(Jane) #5

Awww… have you tried fasting yet? He really noticed a difference when he joined me in fasting. He struggles with the longer fasts since he doesn’t need to lose any more weight, but he can manage the 36-hr fasts and he does it for autophagy. According to Dr. Berry and others, the HGH produced after the first 24 hours boosts the production of testosterone in males. (Not sure what it does for us wimmin folk but I hope something different!). His has always been on the low end of normal.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #6

I got one of those too - isn’t “them” doing all the cooking cool? My only issue is I have to check to see which cooking oil he is planning on using. Other than that, it is like a five-star hotel around here!

(Katie the Quiche Scoffing Stick Ninja ) #7

I’m fat adapted, not always in ketosis, and still losing weight.

#8

Hi Gabe- why “add back the metformin”?

Thanks!

#9

Best of luck to you @gabe - I look forward to hearing how you go :koala:

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #10

There seems to be very little downside and this doctor in the video, who seems to know his stuff, says he’s “aggressive” in his use of metformin in conjunction with the dietary and other lifestyle interventions. I think he also alludes to hormonal intervention — T supplementation for men, for instance.

#11

Love the inflammatory title of that vid! And yes indeed - it all comes down to a low-insulin state.

50-100gram Low Glycemic carbs, feeds muscles…

We are mammals with stone age nervous systems and all kinds of unnatural stress. There are many nuances in self-healing physiology, and a great power that resides in changing things up, fostering adaptive homeostasis.

It makes sense that as metabolic healing proceeds, more flexibility comes into play. Also, the Drs Eades write about the ideal of post-induction fat-adaptation being about the ‘keto-cusp’ rather than hibernating ‘deep in ketosis’ (the constant goal of some in online keto groups) as it allows for more bodily activation/responsiveness This is for all their patients - including the morbidly obese and IR.

Am almost done reading Romanian ketogenic researcher Cristi Vlad’s fourth book, his most recent one called “Stress and Adaptation in Physiology: Perturbation - Between Poison and Medication” where he touches on similar heresies, and explores various applications to rhythm-changing with dietary practices, weight-training, and positive stressors like heat/cold exposure etc. - cultivating the body’s inherent ability to bounce back and restabilize from so much, and thus deeply strengthening health.

There’s a difference between resilience and anti-fragility - in terms of passive/active. After a certain foundation of good habits and practice has been established (in eastern sciences various time frames like 40 days, 90 days, 120 days, and/or 1000 days - relevant to computations related outcomes for self-mastery) the ability to adjust a bit, take a sabbatical, create a new goal, remains important. Allowing for some degree of randomness - on a well-established foundation - is conducive to much health & healing, even down to the cellular level! This is explored a lot in the work of Engineering professor and scholar Nassim Nicolas Taleb "Antifragile: Things That Gain from Disorder - who’s cited by Vlad often.

I know for myself, I enjoy LCHF/keto a lot more, and see recomposition & vitality percolate along, with a certain amount of randomness with my weekly fasting & feasting, activity levels, recovery times, timing of eating windows, rhythms of supplementing. Seems that agility begets agility.

I know I feel better/more oxygenated/brain-nourished with ghee and coconut oil compared to rendered and unrendered meat fat and butter. I haven’t read Nina Teichholz’s book on fats yet, but will soon.

(Sarah Bruhn) #12

Metformin can be problematic when fasting because it inhibits glyconeogenisis, but yes other than being careful whilst fasting, metformin is pretty cool.

(Leigh Thomas) #13

I don’t think ketosis matters that much. It’s more about IF and getting insulin down. Extended fasting is made much easier with keto though, as the body is already used to running on fat and ketones.

(Ron) #14

I will vouch for this. The problems I experienced were upset tummy during fasts with taking the Metformin and if I didn’t take it during the fast, I had digestive problems when I resumed it. I was glad to finally be able to discontinue it completely when the A1c was finally low enough.

(Allie) #15
(Bunny) #16

Love Dr. O :kiss: simply the best!