Ketosis & Depression article: please help me tear this apart


(Casey Brown) #1

My sister sent me this article. I countered with an article about how the food industries influence health research, but I know I can come up with a better argument to the article she sent me. It is all just complete rubbish without scientific backup. http://www.livestrong.com/article/447804-ketosis-depression/


#2

Wow. Immediately under that article, there’s another one about the benefits of ketosis–one of which is mood stability. That, alone, should prove that that’s not a credible site.

While they’re only anecdotal, there’s a number of testimonies on the topic in this thread: https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/depression/2464


(John) #3

The whole premise is flawed to me. Assume I eat the same or more protein on keto as I would on SAD, same amino acids fighting for the same access to the brain. Our bodies, and ketones in particular provide the carbs that our bodies need, this is how we maintain glucose in our blood. When you fast does your insulin drop to zero? Of course not, you have both sugar and insulin in your blood working at all times. If our bodies worked like the article implied, none of the protein we eat gets to our muscles and we wither and die rather quickly.
So if we have carbs and insulin going all the time, we would then have to conclude that it is high levels of insulin only that will provide the serotonin we need. This probably explains why obese people and those severe insulin issues seem to be the happiest.
As you can see below, and more detailed in the link, scientists know there are unknown mechanisms to uptake of tryptophan.

Edit 3
Other junk below, this is all you need. That article implies serotonin is made only in the brain when in fact only 5% is. KCKO

Central serotonin production represents just 5% of total serotonin synthesis, with the vast majority of serotonin made in the periphery. Peripheral synthesis occurs in tissues such as bone, mammary glands, the pancreas, but the gastrointestinal epithelium is by far the largest source. The enterochromaffin cells in the gastrointestinal epithelium account for ~90% of all serotonin synthesis.

Check the end of this

Relevant portion

For central serotonin production to occur, tryptophan first needs to gain access to the central nervous system (CNS) via the blood-brain barrier. Tryptophan is a substrate for the large neutral amino-acid transporter system and competes for transport with several other amino acids essential for brain function. This competition for transport is the basis for some acute tryptophan depletion diets (e.g., [10]). It is generally accepted that most of our tryptophan is bound to plasma albumin and hence is unavailable for transport into the brain. This normally limits the tryptophan available for central serotonin synthesis but release of tryptophan from this pool could increase transport. In addition to free tryptophan levels, findings from exercise studies demonstrate that there must be other, currently unknown, mechanisms controlling central uptake of tryptophan

Edit to add another obvious piece:

Lowered mood is one of the major symptoms of depression, an affective disorder which is the leading cause of disability worldwide, affecting approximately 20% of the world’s population [15]. The major therapeutic agents for treating depression are antidepressants, mostly selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors or combined serotonin/noradrenaline reuptake inhibitors

Why isn’t the main treatment for depression sugar or insulin injections? In this case the control group taking the sugar pills should do better!

Edit 2: This may even be the study they didn’t link. A section similar to this is in the above link and says

In addition to increased liver protein synthesis, the large neutral amino acids included in the diet compete with tryptophan for transport across the blood brain barrier and thus restrict the entry of tryptophan into the brain.

But this was done while purposely restricting tryptophan to see if it also reduced blood levels, which it did. This goes against their earlier claim that they were talking about same levels of tryptophan intake.

There was no effect on people that don’t have a history of depression.

Moreover, low serotonin can indeed contribute to a lowered mood state, however this cannot occur in isolation—it must be in concert with some other unknown system (perhaps neurotransmitter or genetic) that interacts with the reduced serotonin to decrease mood.


#4

Valerie Webber ain’t the sharpest tool in the shed. Here’s another example of the “brilliant” reporting and writing she does in another Livestrong article: http://www.livestrong.com/article/300028-does-a-person-lose-weight-by-drinking-hot-water/

In this other article, she describes how a guy ate nothing but beef and hot water for a period of time and lost weight. Everyone on this forum understands why (ketosis…duh!!) and her brilliant conclusion was that the hot water induced weight loss. [insert eye roll and slap to the forehead here]


(Tom) #5

I’ll do my best to tear this article down soon, but I’m also entering finals crunch time. A glib aside: being 70 lbs heavier than I am now is waaaaaaay more depressing than eating bacon and eggs.


#6

Hey @acrunchyfrog…lots of luck to you during the finals. I’m so glad you are getting closer to the end. The world needs more emerging medical doctors like you to join the ranks and change the world!!!


(Andy Hanson) #7

ZERO experimental evidence presented in the article. It’s pure speculation. My own personal experience is that after 15 years clinically depressed, I no longer am due to the ketogenic diet. I know I’m not alone.


(Andy Hanson) #8

Fantastic response. Thanks for doing the homework so I don’t have to!


(Bacon for the Win) #9

where will you be doing residency? I hear DHMC in NH is a nice place :smiley:


(David) #10

Thanks for this. I’ve been wearing a baseball cap whilst eating a ketogenic diet and have lost weight. Now I know it wasn’t the baseball cap that did it, probably.