Ketones vs Blood Sugar


#1

The back story: I have been eating Keto since August 2015. When I indulge it’s with Keto treats. Last night I ate quite a bit - all keto - but also within my macro ranges 1998 Calories, 12 g Carbs, 187 g Fat and 57g Protein. This morning my fasting blood sugar was 97 and my ketones were 0.2. At the end of today my 2 hour postprandial blood sugar was 90 and my ketones were 0.6. I don’t understand.

  1. Did I just eat too much last night and the excess protein kicked me out of ketosis? Then why would my blood sugar still be good?
  2. Am I really fat adjusted and don’t require high ketones? (I have never been above 0.6)
  3. Am I eating too much all the time and therefore can never get higher in my ketones? I didn’t think 1998 Calories was too much. I weigh 200 lbs and am a 6’1" male and run 20-25 miles a week and train 3 times weekly.
  4. Can someone have a low blood sugar (under 100) and not be in ketosis?
  5. Could my Precision Xtra be off?
  6. What is the coorelation between blood sugar and ketones? I assumed the lower the blood sugar, the higher the ketones.

(Liz) #2

I could be way wrong… but… I honestly don’t think you eat enough. In fat…or protein. You may not have high ketone readings bc you aren’t giving your body enough fuel.
Your blood sugar can be high in the morning bc of the increase in cortisol to wake you up. OR… I kind of wonder if your body stress level is high from all the running and training without proper refueling.
Are you logging your food ? I assume you are since you were so precise with your numbers.
If those are truly accurate numbers, up your fat and maybe up your protein as well but fat the most. Carbs look great.
These are just ideas and suggestions. Hope they help.


(Richard Morris) #3

Ketones are usually lower in the morning and higher in the evening. I’ve never seen a satisfactory explanation why that is so … but it be…

My normal range last year was 0.4 - 0.8 unless I fasted and exercised.

1998 kCal is about right. You probably have a deficit between 500 and 1000 kCal/day and can expect to lose close to a pound a week.

As for a relationship between ketones and glucose - the easy answer is … it’s complicated.

But the long answer is if you are making glucose you make ketones at the same time, if you are eating glucose you don’t make ketones. So if the glucose in your blood was made by your liver you are making ketones too. How many of each that you can measure in your blood depends on how many you made - how many you used so it tends to be a non linear relationship.


(Chris Bair) #4

possible explanation for lower ketones in the morning: https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/dawn-phenomenon-t2d-8/


#5

Thank you for your reply. I never thought to look at my situation that way. I have been feeling a little run down lately and may take your advise to increase fat and protein. I would increase fat first for more energy then protein second to aide in muscle recovery. I want to change them separately as not to muddy the waters of data collection.


(Liz) #6

Personally I believe ketones are lower in the morning bc you’re not eating in that time. You’ve been “fasted”. that won’t be true maybe for someone with a lot of body fat but if your training a lot and using all your energy then it would make sense for you. Test ketones mid day and NOT after exercise for best results. I agree that upping fat and then protein in stepwise fashion will be a good n=1 to try.
If you don’t want to increase protein then maybe look into a amino acid supplement to go with your training. If you go that route message me (is that possible on the forums? ) I’ll give you my recommendation but I don’t want to seem “sales pitchy” keep me posted!!


#7

I stumbled into the same issue. My last meal on sunday was at 7pm. The day started with BC 107 mg/dl on emtpy stomach. 30 minutes after breakfast it was 149 mg/dl. 60 minutes later it was at 154 mg/dl. Two hours after breakfast it was at 119 mg/d. Since sunday i am in a fast with black coffee (with a little coconut oil) and enough water (app. 3-4 litres). Yesterday evening 7pm BC was 95 mg/dl. This morning after wakeup it was 96 mg/dl, the ketones was 0.6 mmol/dl. Two hours later i checked BC again. It was at 124 mg/dl.

I googled about ketones and high BC levels and found the Wikipedia - Randle Cycle.
If i understand that randle cycle correct, it inhibits the absorption of glucose into the cells and inhibits also the break down of glucose stored in the cells.
If the glucose in the blood stream can not absorped into the cells what happens with this amount of glucose in the blood stream? Will it be converted to fat and stored in the liver and/or fat cells? Is this what some sources call “physiolgical insulin resistance”?

How goes this on? If the glucose can not break down and no new one absorped into the cells i wil getting more fat? Even i eat 80/15/5 (fat/protein/carbs)?
What about the gluconeogenesis? AFIK it is done mainly in the liver and parts of the kidneys.

I am a bit desperated and anxious/worried about this situation. Is there anybody out there who has experience and can my give some hints or advices?
Next week i have a visit to my doctor and can ask there. I am afraid of the doctor is not convinced of ketogenic diet. I was put on statins the last 20 years. I quit the intake of statins two month ago.

Thanks to all in advance.


#8

Partially quoting from the article below, I think the main point here is that the glucose is being spared while fatty acid oxidation (ie. lipolysis or fat-burning) is occurring, so I don’t believe that the glucose will be converted to fat since the hormones for lipogenesis (Lipoprotein Lipase, aka LPL) and lipolysis (Hormone Sensitive Lipase, aka HSL) are antagonistic of each other. I can’t say authoritatively that lipogenesis and lipolysis are 100% mutually exclusive, but I do think that when one is active, the other is relatively inactive.

The impairment of glucose metabolism by fatty acid oxidation is mediated by the short-term inhibition of several glycolytic processes.

I think you’re correct and the Rand Cycle is probably what’s responsible for what’s known as Physiologic Insulin Resistance (PIA).


#9

Hello BillJay, thanks for your kind answer. This morning was my BC level at 128 mg/dl. Measured on empty stomach. I am a bit in panik about damage my physiology or rather metabolism.


(Mel Day) #10

This was the most eye-opening statement I’ve heard to date. Thank you for being clear and concise, and for adding an important bit of information to this journey.


(Deb) #11

I was caught in the same sort of connundrum and was testing and retesting and researching…finally just realized all I really care about is that I feel good and am getting the results I want. Now I test once a week or if I start seeing a trend upward.