Ketone levels ...coming back down to earth

(Joey) #1

Well, I’ve been eating serious keto for 3 months now. For most of this time my blood BHB levels (per Mojo) had been hovering between 4-6 mmol/L. I’ve felt wonderful. Also, inches fell off my waist, dropped about 20 lbs (now around 145 on a 5’9" frame) which was a side benefit - not really my initial motivation.

But those BHB levels did seem oddly elevated compared to what most folks report, so I began to feel a bit like a freak … how could they remain so high?!

Well, in the past few days - for no apparent reason - on the same diet, exercise, hydration, sleep, etc., those lofty ketone levels suddenly plunged to more common levels, i.e., closer to 1.0 mmol/L.

Don’t know why. Seems just as odd as when they were atypically elevated.

Related to this, my GKI ratio has risen. It had been coming in between 1 and 2 for much of the time my BHB levels were between 4-6. But now my GKI ratio has suddenly risen to around 5-6. Alas.

I still feel just as great physically and I’m still not eating extraneous carbs (other than those arriving in leafy greens, eggs, limited nuts, etc.)

Just thought I’d share an update in case it ever becomes of interest to others following along in their own progress, trying to get their own bearings along the way.

Onward!

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #2

The GKI levels are usually classified as this:
Below are some fairly widely accepted glucose-ketone numbers for different conditions or treatments:

  • Anything above 9 means your body has not transitioned into a fat-burning state.
  • A 6-9 GKI demonstrates a low level of ketosis: This is appropriate for those who want to lose weight or maintain optimal health.
  • A 3-6 GKI demonstrates moderate levels of ketosis: This is appropriate for addressing many common metabolic diseases including insulin resistance, Type 2 diabetes, or obesity.
  • A less than 3 GKI is a high level of ketosis: This is typically used for addressing epilepsy and cancers. Entering this high level of ketosis periodically each year can be beneficial for anyone hoping to use ketosis for disease prevention.

So your 6 . is for good health, I’d lhink that is something to be happy about, I sure am when I see that number.

Congrats on the weight loss and it sounds like you had some health benefits going on as well. Terrific results in very little time.

Sounds like you are ready for the Maintance subforum, it is under Progress forum.

(Bob M) #3

I would take that table with a grain of salt.

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This shows that I fasted 36 hours, had a GKI of 7.1, went to the gym, and got an even higher GKI. But I was definitely in a “fat burning state”, since I hadn’t eaten for 36 hours.

Wednesday, 2/13, again my GKI starts high and then goes low. This is because my morning blood sugar is always higher than my evening blood sugar. But it doesn’t mean I’m not in a fat burning state or not in ketosis.

In fact, I took GKI for a very short time, as I did not find it to be useful. My ketones are low every morning, so that gives me a higher GKI, but higher at night, giving me a lower GKI. To track something that varies this much, I found useless.

(Joey) #4

@collaroygal Thank you, yes I’ve seen those tables around - they were a cause for concern when I was shown to be in the therapeutic range (for epilepsy and cancer) and additional confusion along the way as I wandered into various other zones that didn’t fit with my actual on-the-ground situation. It might be constructive for someone with some real scientific footing to rework those descriptions to better map against a broader set of explanations.

@ctviggen Your intraday data is remarkable in its variability. Goes a long way in supporting the view that gathering on-going metrics are not particularly valuable - except to clearly illustrate the folly of interpreting them in snapshot moments. (As a data geek who has enjoyed tracking my bio markers along the way, I have mixed feelings about giving up the ghost.)

FWIW, I’ve gradually been less diligent about taking daily measurements… a sign of entering into the “boring keto” phase of healthy living? :wink:

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #5

I look forward to the arrival of my Lumen device with baited breath! Hopefully it will remove most of the noise and erratic data derived from measuring ketones that change minute to minute. Still in line for November delivery.

(Joey) #6

Looks pretty cool.

Do you anticipate measurement accuracy comparable to the Ketonix technology?

As for minute-to-minute data noise, I would assume that whatever moving average/smoothing functions must reside within its software could be applied to the raw (and variable) data obtained through current methods? In other words, the measurements are variable in large part because the reality of our metabolisms are highly variable on an intraday basis. Would it be the smoothing over of that reality that makes a Lumen an attractive device?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #7

Joey, I’ll respond to this in detail after I get home from work.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #8

I do expect higher accuracy if only because its measuring a greater concentration of gas. But what I really expect is to measure something more useful than ketones. The object of the exercise is to burn fat not simply to synthesize ketones. Because the concentration of ketones varies so much so fast, it’s a noisy signal that’s difficult to interpret. But a measurement of RER is a direct measure of fat burn vs. glucose burn in real time. I expect that does not change as rapidly as ketones and/or glucose/insulin. So I expect that to be more useful.

I agree that ‘smoothing’ out the BrAce measurements helps a lot. But what the heck does it mean? It’s going up/down constantly and apparently willy nilly. β-hydroxybutyrate concentration changes almost as much as fast as BrAce. Again, what the heck does it mean?

(Joey) #9

@amwassil Interesting stuff. I’d be eager to hear your impressions of the Lumen device once you’ve had your hands on it for bit. A firsthand review from a knowledgeable user like you would certainly be appreciated.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #10

I shall report, rest assured. :sunglasses:

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #11

Personally I take everything with a grain of salt.

I found that handy to get a idea of what I was doing. I have my husband do the BS for me, I’m a needle phobic person, I use a ketone breath meter and do the math. I just want a ball park idea. All the numbers just let me talk to others about what is going on.

Early on in my keto/low carb journey, I cast my fate with the breath meter, I reached my goal weight and I now maintain by monitoring sporadically. Seems to be working, I’m working on my third year in maintenance now. And I am as healthy as I have ever been in my life and I am 70 now.

(Ellenor Bjornsdottir) #12

i’m not a doctor and this isn’t medical advice, but if you are eating sufficient protein, being in a therapeutic ketone range should not be of concern.

(Joey) #13

Agreed. But until you get to the point where you understand such stuff, the online characterizations of various GKI ranges can be profoundly scary sounding.

Not being a doctor either, I’ll still say it would be helpful (for others following in our footsteps) if “not of concern” descriptions were offered wherever appropriate.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #14

Mmmmmm, salt! :slightly_smiling_face: