Ketone Levels and Activity

(Chantay) #1

Hi! I was reading that Volek found athletes/really active people could be clearly in ketosis and only register at the low end (like .2). I’m wondering if anyone else has experienced this?

I was super concerned about my ketone levels, thinking that I wasn’t really in ketosis because the highest my reading had ever been is .4. In doing the math, I don’t see how I couldn’t be in ketosis, though. My TOTAL carbs haven’t been higher than 25 in over a month. I feel great, have a ton of energy, but that little blood tester just won’t go higher (even after a 2 day fast.) I walk a ton, I weight lift and get in sprint interval cardio, so maybe I’m just using them? Is there reason to believe that’s the case?

#2

When are you testing? Time of day? After eating? After exercise?

(Chantay) #3

Testing in the mornings right after I wake up, before food and working out.

#4

Sometimes (but not in all people) the morning dawn phenomenon can reduce ketone levels due to hormones and cortisol your body spurts out to wake you up (i.e. More glucose). So ketones go down. My ketones are always lower in the morning. Perhaps try measuring late afternoon before dinner and see how the levels are?

#5

Also, are you fat adapted? How long have you been in ketosis? Truly fat adapted people can show fewer ketones in the blood because their bodies are more efficient at making and using them, regardless of the time of day. Therefore, fewer ketone show up on tests.

P.S. I’ve given up trying to predict or understand ketone fluctuations. It’s essentially black magic so I don’t worry about my levels as long as I’m eating right and am over .5. Once I gave up chasing ketones and ketone levels, I reached a zen like acceptance of KCKO and it-is-what-it-is.

(Chantay) #6

I can try that! I was just trying to pick a consistent time for testing. Would the midpoint between lunch and dinner be more indicative of ketone levels?

Side question - if you’re not diabetic, can you still have dawn phenomenon issues?

#7

Well, it would be indicative of your ketone level at that particular time of day, yes. See my P.S. Above.

As for dawn phenomenon, it’s describing something that is a normal part of hormonal/circadian rhythms and waking up each day.

(Chantay) #8

I don’t know if I’m adapted or not, but I think so? Have been low carb for over a year (less than 80g carbs), then switched to keto first of June (less than 25 net carbs.) About a month ago I switched to under 25 total carbs. Feel pretty good, lots of energy, sleeping well, the last week in particular noticing appetite reduction, so did my first 2 day fast. Aside from wanting all the salt (which I satisfied via broth as ketoaid), hunger was a minor inconvenience. I expect that it will change as I move through my cycle, though - definitely at the whim of my hormones, lol.

(Chantay) #9

I’ll try testing right when I get home from work, before I start prepping dinner. That’ll be before my biggest meal of the day and before work out (I can’t lift in the morning - I don’t really DO mornings…)

Is there any truth to showing lower ketone levels because you’re active and thus USING more ketones? Could it be indicative of lower excess availability?

(Todd Allen) #10

The blood ketone test measures a type of ketone waiting to be used. It’s like a checking account, you could have great income, spend it as fast as you earn it and never show a high balance. The breath test measures the by product of ketones used and in some ways I think that is more useful to know.

If you have been eating low carb/keto and then fasted for 2 days you would almost surely be running on ketones by the end of the fast. If you didn’t see your blood ketones rising it is probably because you are very efficient at using the ketones and breath testing should show it.

(Chantay) #11

Okay, good to hear that it’s not a totally insane theory. At this point I feel like the better has indicated I’m in ketosis enough to not bother with more consistent testing. :slight_smile:

I’ll give afternoon testing a try for a couple weeks out of curiosity, thanks guys!!

(Allie) #12

Almost always lowest first thing in the morning then rises throughout the day.

(Erin Macfarland ) #13

@Chantruese yes, I absolutely experienced this. Each person is different. Some get very high readings and others lower but both can be using ketones efficiently based on their body’s needs and physiology.

(Jim Russell) #14

This probably explains what I have experienced over the last week or so. Due to a minor injury I haven’t worked out at all beyond walking my dogs. I had been reading .04-.05% bac on most days with the blood ketones staying at .3-.5 mmol/l. The last week or so both readings shot way up and I’m reading .11-.20% bac and 1.1-1.6 mmol/l.

I thought I had turned some corner on being fat adapted. But, now that I think about it, maybe it’s just the exercise thing. If it was caused by the exercise (or lack of), I’m not surprised that the blood ketones went up, since if I had been burning them as fast as I made them and now wasn’t burning as many then some would build up. But the breath thing confuses me. If I was burning them, shouldn’t the breath ketones have been higher when I was working out than they are now? And if I’m no longer burning as fast as I make them, why are my breath ketones higher now?

I wonder if the exercise wasn’t causing gluconeogenesis which was suppressing ketone production.

(Jason Fletcher) #15

This topic was one that was covered in the new book The Ketogenic Bible. I really liked the explanation of how ketones are utilized in the body. To uptake ketones into the tissues we need what is called monocarboxylic acid transporters The rate at which ketones are taken into the cells depend on how many of these receptors there are. So It states that a person with more receptors will have lower ketone levels. It also states that exercise itself may cause the amount of transporters to increase. It said that the more fit you are the lower plasma ketone levels you will have. So because of this blood ketone levels may not be the most accurate indication level of ketosis.
I myself have noticed this when i first started a keto diet i would get levels up around 3.2 and then 2 months later never over .5. Then when i started using a ketonix I would never get readings over 50. I did see spikes when i used mct oil but they would fall fast. When i used samples of exogenous ketones I would not even get a bump in breath ketone levels. Plus when i would use a large quantity of heavy cream i would find my breath ketone reading to be the highest. I can say at this point i can handle larger a quantity of mct oil then a lot of people. I have taken 4 table spoons of mct oil without discomfort at 1 siting . The only reason I have done this is to spike ketone levels in hope of decreasing some inflammation in my forearm. I am suspicious that acetone produced from using ketones may be not be always be found to be higher in the breath just from higher usage of ketones I would love to know why. Maybe different MCT’s brake down into different ketone bodies that when burned produce different amounts of acetone? Or is acetone absorbed in the body at different levels causing variation? My goal is to increase the monocarboxylic acid transporters in my body in hopes of increasing performance and overall health. Right now there is not a accurate way to test for a transporter that i know of so testing ketones for the most part may be a waste of time.

(Jim Russell) #16

I did 90 minutes of hot yoga today. Before class I blew .11% bac on my cheap breathalyzer, about an hour after class .05.

(Jason Fletcher) #17

did you use mouthwash or brush your teeth less then a hour before you tested?

(Jim Russell) #18

No, no mouthwash or toothbrushing immediately prior to either reading. I had been reading .10 - .20 all week long and not exercising. Today I was back at .13.

(Jason Fletcher) #19

Is it .010 and .013? I have heard of people hitting .04 on keto. But .13 that is like 7 drinks.

(Jim Russell) #20

I think most people use the Greenwon. I have one, but I usually use a different brand. When I have compared them, the Greenwon is always significantly lower. I don’t think I’ve ever had over .04 on the greenwon.