Keto to carnivore and back to keto

(Lynne Kersh) #1

Hi,

  • I lost almost a stone when I started Keto (max 14 NCs p.d.) in March 21 - absolutely delighted!
  • Got a bit bored with the weighing and special cooking so discovered and then crossed over to Carnivore (avg. 3 NCs p.d.) in July 21.
  • Been loving the simplicity but haven’t lost a single pound, or rather, the same 2 or 3 lbs. having been you-yoing for 6 months.
  • Now decided to go back to Keto in the hope that I’ll get the good results I got initially and I’ve joined Premium.
  • I want to lose about a stone to be my ideal weight.

QUESTION :

Will my body lose weight going from approx. 3 NCs on Carnivore to max. 14 NCs on Keto as it did when I started Keto from a Standard Diet??

Obviously the other macros (Fat, Protein + Calories) will change a bit now and of course the range of food, but might I actually put on weight due to the increase in Net Carbs??

Your help and advice will be most welcome!

Pinkcadillac

#2

It would make no sense to me, unless your body works in some weird ways.

I always lose fat according to calories, it doesn’t even matter if I am in ketosis, it does for others, it seems but in your case both methods are keto, your body functions similarly so I wouldn’t think it could affect your fat-loss unless the carbs mess with you as with me, they easily trigger overeating in me so I stick to carnivore as much as I can. But I could add carbs (well okay I can easily eat 20g net and total carbs on carnivore, it doesn’t seem to matter. plants in bigger amounts are different) and lose fat, my other macros has an even bigger factor in it.

But try it and you will see. I don’t think you need to worry about it but our body is too complex, you will change different things, not just your carbs so… Who knows?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #3

The posts I’ve read about carnivore all suggest that the initial six months to a year on the diet involve some quite extensive readjustments and there might not be a noticeable change on the scale for a while. The other possibility, of course, is that you’re losing fat, but are adding lean mass at the same time, for a net change of zero in your scale weight—it’s been known to happen, at any rate.

Most people eating carnivore do so not for the fat loss, but rather because of the bad effects plant foods have on their health. If you can tolerate plant foods in your diet, there is no reason to avoid them.

(Lynne Kersh) #4

Thank you both! Very helpful.

You’re right, I don’t need to address any health issues that I know of, I simply want to lose fat.

Hasn’t happened on carnivore but it did initially on Keto which is why I’m going back.

I’ve also decided to track total carbs instead of net carbs as this’ll be more strict. of course it means a lot of work re-calibrating my recipe folder but I’ll be able to do it and eat a little less on 15 total carbs as compared to my 15 net carbs when I first did keto.

( on carnivore it’s very easy to eat less than five net carbs a day and of course you don’t have to worry about the values of foods at all, you just eat meat and animal products which makes shopping extremely easy and also choosing what to eat.)

So now I’ve got a great deal more work to do but if I lose fat I won’t mind at all in the long run.

Any other suggestions here would be greatly appreciated and I will get back to you in a couple of weeks to let you know if anything has budged on the scale or on the waistline!

(Lynne Kersh) #5

HI, stupidly forgot to hit SEND!
But here’s the update on my switch back from Carni to Keto - not a pound lost! I look fatter even!
So I swapped doing Total Carbs and am back doing Nets and this week have even reduced my Calories to an eye watering (ie terribly difficult) 1000, 62g Protein, 78 of Fat and 12.8 Net Carbs.

To tell the truth, after 11 months of weighing, tracking, cooking, researching, going without different food groups, bringing those foods back in, etc. etc. I’m totally at a loss as to what to do next.
All expert advice so far is conflicting and I just can’t get a handle on this or lose any more weight (only 8 lbs lost now since March 2021.
I don’t mind doing Carni or Keto, whichever brings results and I only want to lose weight, my health is fine as are my blood test results.
to remind you - I’m 69 (tomorrow), 5’ 3", mainly sedentary except for short daily walks with dog. I weigh 167.

CAN ANYONE TAKE ME IN HAND AND LEAD ME TO SUCCESS. I only want to lose another 10 -14 lbs.??

YOU’D MAKE ME SOOO HAPPY!!!

(Allie) #6

If you starve yourself your body will hold on tightly to whatever it has left.

Eat when hungry, ditch the scales, buy a tape measure.

It’s not weight you want to lose, it’s fat, and unless you’re tracking physical changes in body composition you won’t know what is actually going on.

(Robin) #7

I’d be looking at my calories too, to make sure you are eating enough. You want to be just under maintenance calories for your body to feel safe enough to let go. But @Shortstuff is right… try breaking up with the scales for a while. They can play nasty head games for manny of us.

(Joey) #8

Please listen to @Shortstuff …

Your body will begin to shut down in starvation mode. You need to feed your body for it to function in a healthy, sustainable way.

Losing weight through starvation makes as much sense as losing weight through amputation. Please don’t attempt.

(Lynne Kersh) #9

THANK YOU SO MUCH ROBIN, ALLIE AND JOEY FOR HELPING ME.

You can see my consternation as I’ve been following the Carb Manager’s idea of a 25% calorie deficit (1100) and the Keto
5% Net Carbs (15g),
25% Protein (71g)
and 70 Fat (88g)
and now you lovely people are telling me I’m not eating enough!!

Well I’m well and truly flummoxed but something’s got to give so I’m going to try upping my calories and therefore my macros BUT TO HOW MANY CALORIES??

Or is it simply eat till I feel full but just make sure my food is low carb and don’t worry too much about the Proteins and Fat??

#10

This - but as you’re coming off such a major deficit, you might need to keep an eye on your calories to make sure you’re eating enough. 1000-1100 is far far far too low, and your hunger signalling may be off after following this level of restriction for such a long time.

Forget percentages. Focus on 20g of carbs as an upper limit, and eat fat/protein to satiety. You can worry about the nitty gritty details later - if you focus on animal foods with fat on them (so steak rather than chicken etc), nature offers a fairly decent starting point.

If you move to carnivore, you might find that the scale increases in the short term whilst your body stabilises following such dramatic restriction. It doesn’t mean this is fat increase (it can be lean mass, bone density etc) - many carnivores with a history of restriction find that they went through this and the scale tracked downwards again after 6 months.

I know this isn’t what you want to hear, but at the moment you’re stuck in a calorie trap. There isn’t a healthy way to sustain such a large deficit over the long term.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #11

Bingo!

(Lynne Kersh) #12

actually I did put weight on when I went from Keto to Carni (very upset I was!) then I just stuck at the same weight (again v upset!) which is why I’m back on Keto.

But I’m very happy to try a max of 20 net Carbs and eat til satiety preferring lovely fatty, meaty foods. Sounds actually like a healthy well rounded eating plan. I may start off with a 16:8 IF just to wake up my system from it’s deep, fat-retaining sleep.

TBH baking all the Keto bread/cake recipes is a real headache - it’s time consuming, expensive and carb rich without being particularly nutritious and a good slab of mature cheddar or salmon fillet will fill me up more!

Have I got this now? Do you trust me Friends to go ff on my own and see what happens?

#13

The problem you’ve got is that by eating such low calories for a period of time (and this is not a criticism; I understand how you’ve got there) you are going to go upwards in the short term.

You’ve accidentally dug yourself into a hole and your body needs to get out of it before it can start looking at losing fat. It might take a while to correct itself, and you really have to trust in the process.

(Robin) #14

@pinkcadillac… I can’t find where you listed your height, and maybe age too. All of these factors may be playing a role.

#15

@robintemplin

(Robin) #16

Lol… Apparently I can’t retain info. Thanks.

(Lynne Kersh) #17

No worries!! I can’t lose fat :joy: :joy:

(Robin) #18

Lololol… So, first off… happy birthday!
We are close, I’m 67 y.o. but 5’7”.
I have zero ideas now as to why you are not losing fat. Eating under 1000 always sounds scary to me. But at your height, I’m not sure.

Thankfully most folks on here have a lot more experience and knowledge under their belts, so to speak. Hopefully you’ll get some good suggestions.

(Allie) #19

As you’ve been eating so few calories for a while, I would suggest a gradual increase of 100 calories a week as this will allow your body to adapt to the increase properly. This is the same way figure / bikini competitors get themselves back to a real amount of food after competitions without having their body suddenly store one increase as fat - it’s known as reverse dieting.

If you’re hungry all the time, something isn’t working. Try to shift your focus towards helping your body and giving it the nourishment it needs to be as healthy as possible, this is the key to success.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #20

This apparently happens to a lot of people who start eating carnivore. The advice from the long-time carnivores is to keep on, because it will sort itself out over time, as the body adjusts. And on carnivore, even more so than on keto, apparently, it’s important to eat enough food, not try to restrict calories.